Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.006 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'advocate': 0.07; 'remaining': 0.07; 'check,': 0.09; 'dst': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; 'americans': 0.16; 'arizona': 0.16; 'finney': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'reminding': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'timezones': 0.16; 'utc': 0.16; ':-)': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'bit': 0.19; 'australian': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; "aren't": 0.24; 'integer': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'nearly': 0.26; 'player': 0.26; 'world,': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; '[1]': 0.29; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'easier': 0.31; 'though.': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'this.': 0.32; 'run': 0.32; 'worked': 0.33; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'subject: (': 0.35; "can't": 0.35; 'knows': 0.35; 'problem.': 0.35; 'case,': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; '(we': 0.36; 'campaign': 0.36; 'problems': 0.38; 'ben': 0.38; 'handle': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'sure': 0.39; 'most': 0.60; 'new': 0.61; 'strictly': 0.61; 'real': 0.63; 'happen': 0.63; 'talking': 0.65; 'eastern': 0.68; 'goal': 0.75; 'smoke': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92; 'online,': 0.96 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=XIEP3tBk+vAbcMOOQmbYAivx0AC1i+vv8C/wo6+37jw=; b=gxLzQzlFGy5YKDfYzSndH2h/Rr3Lv+pX8uzWZ/QPOCykyunERnKY2GHIoqLTZrlj6K 6Fr7wHnIfV+2/1DYfHmLrS0B2O4Cyt7NpbMext7zlHzLOqPgqfIFdKTU5xOYQvi51qFd qnsuA/RiT5Jmsd1fS3hp9jmUQtOAoYORCuHO6mqwEM6+nf9gu5pGk8PAVsm2fQVGHFU2 0eWSJ+uJVEV0exdFftfSNw4ZYcUd4dGXriwMSJo9quYYyJgpoNmcf34ePgfIbni9Ws+X gjalfB4Pbx7VHFkzGmaFjd3he4omIG7MSw6BQRo+TO3eX2Hka8/sra+AmHroNp4xsLbL QIxA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.98.3 with SMTP id ee3mr1096824pbb.31.1389240895920; Wed, 08 Jan 2014 20:14:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <7wr48hernb.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> References: <78d91$52cbf8e9$541826b9$29485@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <4b702$52cc262e$541826b9$22985@cache80.multikabel.net> <4cbf$52cc2e82$541826b9$11761@cache70.multikabel.net> <686$52cd4640$541826b9$21896@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <7wvbxteskh.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <7wr48hernb.fsf_-_@benfinney.id.au> Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2014 15:14:55 +1100 Subject: Re: Time zones and why they change so damned often (was: the Gravity of Python 2) From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1389240905 news.xs4all.nl 2914 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:44294 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:63565 On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 2:54 PM, Ben Finney wrote: > I'm approaching it with the goal of knowing better what I'm talking > about when I advocate scrapping the whole DST system :-) I would definitely support the scrapping of DST. I'm less sure that we need exactly 24 timezones around the world, though. It's not nearly as big a problem to have the half-hour and quarter-hour timezones - though it would be easier if timezone were strictly an integer number of hours. But DST is the real pain. What I find, most of the time, is that it's Americans who can't handle DST. I run an international Dungeons and Dragons campaign (we play online, and new players are most welcome, as are people watching!), and the Aussies (myself included) know to check UTC time, the Brits and Europeans check UTC or just know what UTC is, and the Americans say "Doesn't that happen at 8 o'clock Eastern time?" and get confused. I don't understand this. Are my players drawn exclusively from the pool of people who've never worked with anyone in Arizona [1]? Yes, I'm stereotyping a bit here, and not every US player has had problems with this, but it's the occasional US player who knows to check, and the rare European, British, or Aussie player who doesn't. In any case, the world-wide abolition of DST would eliminate the problem. The only remaining problem would be reminding people to change the batteries in their smoke detectors. ChrisA [1] For those who aren't right up on timezone trivia, AZ has no DST. Similarly the Australian state of Queensland does not shift its clocks.