Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!dedibox.gegeweb.org!gegeweb.eu!nntpfeed.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.045 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.91; '*S*': 0.00; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; '2.7': 0.14; 'language.': 0.14; 'comfortable.': 0.16; 'fine.': 0.16; 'months)': 0.16; 'objection': 0.16; 'path.': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; '3.0': 0.19; 'possible,': 0.19; 'help.': 0.21; 'code,': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'stick': 0.24; 'decide': 0.24; 'fine': 0.24; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.27; 'rest': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'gives': 0.31; '3.2': 0.31; 'argue': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; "they'll": 0.31; 'another': 0.32; 'running': 0.33; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'late': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'version': 0.36; '2.6': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'expected': 0.38; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'then,': 0.60; 'simple': 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'our': 0.64; 'holding': 0.65; 'capable': 0.67; '2.10.': 0.84; '2.5.': 0.84; '2.7.': 0.84; '2.8': 0.84; '2.8.': 0.84; '3.4': 0.84; '3.6': 0.84; '3.7': 0.84; 'delaying': 0.84; 'official,': 0.84; 'demand': 0.91; 'migrating': 0.91; 'anywhere,': 0.93; 'remember,': 0.93 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Mark Lawrence Subject: Re: the Gravity of Python 2 Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2014 14:08:10 +0000 References: <78d91$52cbf8e9$541826b9$29485@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <4b702$52cc262e$541826b9$22985@cache80.multikabel.net> <4cbf$52cc2e82$541826b9$11761@cache70.multikabel.net> <686$52cd4640$541826b9$21896@cache1.tilbu1.nb.home.nl> <52cd4c2a$0$29979$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: host-78-147-191-18.as13285.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: <52cd4c2a$0$29979$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 55 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1389190117 news.xs4all.nl 2920 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:59609 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:63475 On 08/01/2014 13:01, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Martijn Faassen wrote: > >> I also argue that for those projects to move anywhere, they need a >> clear, blessed, official, as simple as possible, incremental upgrade >> path. That's why I argue for a Python 2.8. > > That incremental upgrade path is Python 2.7. > > Remember, when Python 3 first came out, the current version of Python was > 2.5. 2.6 came out roughly simultaneously with Python 3. So the expected > upgrade path is: > > > "Bleeding edge" adaptors: > 2.5 -> 3.0 > > Early adaptors: > 2.5 -> 2.6 -> 3.1 or 3.2 > > Slower adaptors: > 2.5 -> 2.6 -> 2.7 -> 3.3 or 3.4 > > Late adaptors: > 2.5 -> 2.6 -> 2.7 -> 3.5 (expected to be about 18-24 months) > > Laggards who wait until support for 2.7 is dropped: > 2.5 -> 2.6 -> 2.7 -> 3.6 or 3.7 > > Adding 2.8 doesn't help. It just gives people another excuse to delay > migrating. Then, in another two or three years, they'll demand 2.9, and put > it off again. Then they'll insist that 15 years wasn't long enough to > migrate their code, and demand 2.10. > > I have no objection to people delaying migrating. There were lots of risks > and difficulties in migrating to 3.1 or 3.2, there are fewer risks and > difficulties in migrating to 3.3 and 3.4, and there will be even fewer by > the time 3.5 and 3.6 come out. People should migrate when they are > comfortable. They may even decide to stick to 2.7 for as long as they can > find a computer capable of running it, security updates or no security > updates. That's all fine. > > What's not fine though is people holding the rest of us back with their > negativity and FUD that Python 3 is a mistake. > > Big +1 from me to all the above. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence