Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <python-python-list@m.gmane.org>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.014
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'feedback.': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'armin': 0.09; 'indeed,': 0.09; "person's": 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'volunteer': 0.12; 'antoine': 0.16; 'ignoring': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'respondents': 0.16; 'subject:More': 0.16; 'subject:Unicode': 0.16; 'thread,': 0.16; 'which,': 0.16; 'ignore': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'do.': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'community,': 0.19; 'preferred': 0.22; 'creating': 0.23; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'either.': 0.24; 'visible': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; 'source': 0.25; 'posts': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'primarily': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'posting': 0.31; 'that.': 0.31; 'apparently': 0.31; 'developers.': 0.31; 'feeds': 0.31; 'idea,': 0.31; 'subject:About': 0.31; 'supplier': 0.31; 'writes:': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'service,': 0.32; 'supposed': 0.32; 'open': 0.33; 'community': 0.33; 'core': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'but': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; "i'll": 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'effort': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'feedback': 0.38; 'others.': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'above,': 0.60; 'course.': 0.60; 'subject:"': 0.60; 'monitoring': 0.61; 'valuable': 0.63; 'skip:n 10': 0.64; 'great': 0.65; 'selling': 0.65; 'articles': 0.65; 'talking': 0.65; 'customers': 0.66; 'respect': 0.70; 'to,': 0.72; 'intelligent': 0.74; 'antoine.': 0.84; 'batchelder': 0.84; 'bow': 0.84; 'customers?': 0.84; 'ample': 0.91; 'good,': 0.91; 'mean.': 0.91; 'obtained': 0.96
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: python-list@python.org
From: Ned Batchelder <ned@nedbatchelder.com>
Subject: Re: "More About Unicode in Python 2 and 3"
Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 17:25:15 -0500
References: <lablra$1mc$2@ger.gmane.org> <labmaj$8u2$1@ger.gmane.org> <lad05k$gf6$1@ger.gmane.org> <loom.20140106T171406-519@post.gmane.org> <laf7sj$1be$1@ger.gmane.org> <loom.20140106T230803-273@post.gmane.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 18.189.30.229
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0
In-Reply-To: <loom.20140106T230803-273@post.gmane.org>
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.5076.1389047405.18130.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 58
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1389047405 news.xs4all.nl 2899 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:60201
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:63358

On 1/6/14 5:16 PM, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Ned Batchelder <ned <at> nedbatchelder.com> writes:
>>
>>
>> I never said they were the whole community, of course. But they are not
>> outliers either. By your own statistics above, 23% of respondents think
>> Python 3 was a mistake.  Armin and Kenneth are just two very visible
>> people.
>
> Indeed, they are two very visible people.
>
>> I'm not creating rock stars.  I'm acknowledging that these two people
>> are listened to by many others.  It sounds like part of your effort to
>> avoid rockstars is to ignore any one person's specific feedback?  I must
>> be misunderstanding what you mean.
>
> I am not trying to ignore "any one person's specific feedback". I am
> ignoring your claim that we should give Armin's blog posts an
> extraordinary importance because he is "revered".
>
> Speaking of which, posting blog articles is not the preferred way to
> give feedback. There are ample community resources for that. I am
> irritated that we are apparently supposed to be monitoring blog posts,
> Twitter feeds and whatnot for any sign of dissent, and immediately react
> to a criticism that wasn't even voiced directly to us.
>
>> You are being given detailed specific feedback from intelligent
>> dedicated customers that many people listen to,
>
> Could you please stop talking about customers? We are not selling
> Python to anyone (*). Writing open source software as a volunteer is
> not supposed to be a sacrificial activity where we will bow with
> extreme diligence to the community's every outburst. Please try to
> respect us.

I do respect you, and all the core developers.  As I've said elsewhere 
in the thread, I greatly appreciate everything you do.  I dedicate a 
great deal of time and energy to the Python community, primarily because 
of the amazing product that you have all built.

I've made my point as best as I can, I'll stop now.

>
> ((*) Wikipedia: "A customer (sometimes known as a client, buyer, or
> purchaser) is the recipient of a good, service, product, or idea,
> obtained from a seller, vendor, or supplier for a monetary or other
> valuable consideration")
>
> Regards
>
> Antoine.
>
>


-- 
Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com