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From: "Prasad, Ramit" <ramit.prasad@jpmorgan.com>
To: "python-list@python.org" <python-list@python.org>
Subject: RE: Python 3: dict & dict.keys()
Thread-Topic: Python 3: dict & dict.keys()
Thread-Index: AQHOiJKOfYycRz3X90uM6iWVTW41zZl0ahEAgAAYd4D//8Wi4A==
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2013 20:34:28 +0000
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Stefan Behnel wrote:
> Ethan Furman, 24.07.2013 20:31:
> > On 07/24/2013 10:23 AM, Stefan Behnel wrote:
> >> Peter Otten, 24.07.2013 08:23:
> >>> Ethan Furman wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> So, my question boils down to:  in Python 3 how is dict.keys() differ=
ent
> >>>> from dict?  What are the use cases?
> >>>
> >>> To me it looks like views are a solution waiting for a problem.
> >>
> >> They reduce the API overhead. Previously, you needed values() and
> >> itervalues(), with values() being not more than a special case of what
> >> itervalues() provides anyway. Now it's just one method that gives you
> >> everything. It simply has corrected the tradeoff from two special purpo=
se
> >> APIs to one general purpose API, that's all.
> >
> > I started this thread for two reasons:
> >
> >   1) Increase awareness that using `list(dict)` is a cross-version
> > replacement for `dict.keys()`
> >
> >   2) Hopefully learn something about when a view is useful.
> >
> > So far #2 is pretty much a failure.
> 
> I think the question is: how else would you implement an interface that
> doesn't restrict itself to returning a list? I mean, previously, the
> following was totally inefficient in terms of memory:
> 
>     value in d.values()
> 
> It now avoids creating an intermediate list copy of the values, thus
> running with no additional memory overhead (well, a constant, ok, but
> definitely not linear) and keeps users from resorting to the much more
> unfriendly
> 
>     for v in d.itervalues():
>         if v =3D=3D value:
>             return True
>     else:
>         return False
> 
> in order to achieve the same thing. You can now even efficiently do this
> for items, i.e.
> 
>     (key, value) in d.items()
> 
> That's equivalent to "d[key] =3D=3D value", but uses a different protocol,
> meaning that you don't have to make a copy of the dict items in order to
> pass it into something that works on a set or iterable of 2-tuples (which
> is a way more generic interface than requiring a dict as input). These
> things chain much more cleanly now, without first having to explain the
> difference between items() and iteritems() and when to use which.
> 
> It's all about replacing the old copy-to-list interface by something that
> is efficiently processable step by step. All of this started back when
> iterators became a part of the language, then generators, and now dict
> views. They may not be the hugest feature ever, but they definitely fit
> into the language much better and much more cleanly than the old
> copy-to-list way.
> 
> Ask yourself, if they had been there in Python 1.x, would you even have
> thought about making the iter*() methods a part of the language? Would you
> really have wanted a shorter way to create a list of dict values than
> list(d.values())?
> 
> Stefan
> 

I am still not clear on the advantage of views vs. iterators. What
makes d.viewkeys() better than d.iterkeys()? Why did they decide
not to rename d.iterkeys() to d.keys() and instead use d.viewkeys()?
Is the iteration over a set operation on keys really that common a 
use case?


Ramit




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