Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'argument': 0.05; 'guido': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'important,': 0.07; 'referring': 0.07; 'anymore.': 0.09; 'pep': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subset': 0.09; 'summary.': 0.09; 'jan': 0.12; 'presume': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'subject:More': 0.16; 'subject:Unicode': 0.16; 'succinct': 0.16; 'sync': 0.16; 'url:peps': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'small,': 0.19; 'written': 0.21; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'bytes': 0.24; 'finally,': 0.24; 'url:dev': 0.24; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'url:bugs': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'easier': 0.31; 'subject:About': 0.31; 'url:python': 0.33; 'approval': 0.33; 'minimal': 0.33; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'method': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'thank': 0.38; 'needed': 0.38; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.38; 'anything': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'subject:"': 0.60; 'ago.': 0.61; 'new': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; 'happen': 0.63; 'become': 0.64; 'ethan': 0.84; 'furman': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'difficult,': 0.91 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: "More About Unicode in Python 2 and 3" Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 15:53:32 -0500 References: <52C9FD02.3080109@stoneleaf.us> <52CAC780.1010204@stoneleaf.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-75-254-207.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: <52CAC780.1010204@stoneleaf.us> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1389041709 news.xs4all.nl 2849 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:34767 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:63341 On 1/6/2014 10:10 AM, Ethan Furman wrote: > The argument is that a very important, if small, subset a data > manipulation become very painful in Py3. Not impossible, and not > difficult, but painful because the mental model and the contortions > needed to get things to work don't sync up anymore. Thank you for a succinct summary. I presume you are referring in part by bytes manipulations that would be easier with bytes.format. In http://bugs.python.org/issue3982 Guido gave approval in principle to a minimal new method a year ago. The proponents failed to build on that to get anything in 3.4. Finally, however, Viktor Stinner has written a PEP http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0460/ so something might happen for 3.5. -- Terry Jan Reedy