Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.redatomik.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'anyway.': 0.04; 'debug': 0.04; 'semantic': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'worse': 0.09; '--debug': 0.16; 'distinct': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'something.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; '>>>': 0.20; '2015': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'assumes': 0.22; 'disable': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; "doesn't": 0.26; 'chris': 0.26; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; '14,': 0.27; 'does,': 0.29; 'equivalent.': 0.29; 'tail': 0.29; 'program,': 0.29; 'subject:/': 0.30; 'optimize': 0.33; 'traceback': 0.33; 'tue,': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'no,': 0.38; 'rather': 0.39; 'behavior': 0.61; 'default': 0.61; 'lose': 0.63; 'jul': 0.72; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=/sOSw/fXKOYYYs2/EAOD3o8SVAQQZg1VnoW06eCX4fU=; b=ICCC6JxQdfjINoAUI7C/YAIfzRYo7XKK8ijcnh848nsDPxjlxnWTrzw9phHk6Zo72w clq6OrwJ2caRE/O0YZyzJ/HBRDF+qHYVX5tSMBC5rrLq4cUR/Tg7h9SPcybTQll+SQlF 52MhZCZzcrecvBIolrcBq3DirnV+58LU8AJmM9AHeBhPeWGmWSFv1nqIHLwQGTCegTId v25llF4ThCKeQF5GJ+BecJC3mejtsuoeLQdL6YP4PI4mB0aAbhFgTuWTDIdASEVjSwrP E5FNwp7HJxnlyWtPTlXsBWAvu0GMZ4Q7zU/7HzTOf5S7jOMF+s0fJ/NCbmSHhD+8ZsR8 INaQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.122.65 with SMTP id lq1mr3406548igb.56.1436881402840; Tue, 14 Jul 2015 06:43:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87k2u2eu67.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> References: <55A3A853.4040006@rece.vub.ac.be> <55A3C366.6060602@rece.vub.ac.be> <87fv4r1fre.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87bnff1eks.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> <87d1zunctp.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87k2u2eu67.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Date: Tue, 14 Jul 2015 23:43:22 +1000 Subject: Re: Possibly Pythonic Tail Call Optimization (TCO/TRE) From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1436881412 news.xs4all.nl 2964 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:52918 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:93810 On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 11:38 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Chris Angelico : > >> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 10:28 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >>> I would rather optimize by default and disable optimizations with >>> --debug or equivalent. >> >> That assumes that it's simply an optimization. This is a distinct >> semantic change. > > No, tail call optimization doesn't change the behavior of the program, > for the worse anyway. It does, because you lose traceback records. That's pretty significant when you come to try to debug something. ChrisA