Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder7.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'encoding': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'string': 0.09; 'bytes,': 0.09; 'bytes.': 0.09; 'from:addr:ethan': 0.09; 'from:addr:stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'from:name:ethan furman': 0.09; 'message-id:@stoneleaf.us': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; 'changes': 0.15; 'dict': 0.16; 'expects': 0.16; 'json,': 0.16; 'stuff,': 0.16; 'subject:More': 0.16; 'subject:Unicode': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'not,': 0.20; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'bytes': 0.24; "shouldn't": 0.24; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'character': 0.29; 'subject:About': 0.31; 'file': 0.32; 'there': 0.35; 'charset :us-ascii': 0.36; 'half': 0.37; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'expect': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'subject:"': 0.60; 'received:173': 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'times': 0.62; 'became': 0.64; 'nobody': 0.68; 'stated': 0.69; 'battle,': 0.84; 'received:gateway15.websitewelcome.com': 0.84 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2014 08:23:15 -0800 From: Ethan Furman User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: "More About Unicode in Python 2 and 3" References: <52C9FD02.3080109@stoneleaf.us> <52CAC780.1010204@stoneleaf.us> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator3304.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - python.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - stoneleaf.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 173.12.184.233 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([173.12.184.233]) [173.12.184.233]:42814 X-Source-Auth: ethan+stoneleaf.us X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: dG9idWs7dG9idWs7Z2F0b3IzMzA0Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1389027106 news.xs4all.nl 2959 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:40646 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:63300 On 01/06/2014 07:46 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > > None of this changes the fact that there are bytes used to > store/transmit stuff, and abstract concepts used to manipulate them. > Just like nobody expects to be able to write a dict to a file without > some form of encoding (pickle, JSON, whatever), you shouldn't expect > to write a character string without first turning it into bytes. Writing is only half the battle, and not, as it happens, where I experience the pain. This data must also be /read/. It has been stated many times that the Py2 str became the Py3 bytes, and yet never in Py2 did 'abc'[1] return 98. -- ~Ethan~