Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Larry Martell Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2016 10:53:33 -0400 Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de whMvt2StLqxY14ahO4rLRA53RZp4jQ1gT4BmPK8t727g== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.008 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; '16,': 0.03; 'received:209.85.223': 0.03; '(especially': 0.07; 'override': 0.07; 'subject:PEP': 0.07; 'advice.': 0.09; 'length.': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; '2016': 0.16; 'devs': 0.16; 'pep8': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'url:pep-0008': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'all,': 0.20; 'to:name:python- list@python.org': 0.20; 'meant': 0.22; 'problem:': 0.22; 'stephen': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'code.': 0.23; 'sat,': 0.23; '(this': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; "doesn't": 0.26; 'chris': 0.26; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'another.': 0.29; 'pep': 0.29; 'url:peps': 0.29; 'code': 0.30; 'probably': 0.31; 'especially': 0.32; 'core': 0.32; 'run': 0.33; 'point': 0.33; 'url:python': 0.33; 'worked': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'url:dev': 0.35; "isn't": 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'really': 0.37; 'agree': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'suggestion': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.38; 'represent': 0.38; 'goes': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'subject:the': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'matter': 0.63; 'needs,': 0.63; 'companies': 0.63; 'concerns': 0.66; 'subject': 0.70; 'carried': 0.76; 'mountain?': 0.84; 'stone': 0.84; 'ugly,': 0.84; 'attitude': 0.91; 'why?': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=FntkfRixNl/Vgdc58gBR7+edAzj59GlAChOGOyeDSps=; b=jWCj7vKs+wENABiZWDzXnVhUimH9jDQ5Rqk3HqKrG8mM/dJjJz3po1X1lk1q4M1hfX uRL6tQhMFDoEVsPoByRWXqZ6jhyyYzUcDrXlQEh3UKnaq+lEq4Be4CQf4V05IIf/pgtb 5aPihoMsx0E6KJT+2X9xxbVsGw/Rc/1yDIGuzDH06/UfoVw7/rGHz/WCCf4BbllOZgpm ERGrhDR8McllisUEvg37r4DVdpc3tX53QHkNGu3LpHXueNfK0Yl+lTMKoONI77iB+Vey cfB8eR5s1Lr4Er6n/bsgfPUjyVN42XaaM3Ht+bIyh07gINFYZED06VvxDuCGiOHUIMeK AlhQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=FntkfRixNl/Vgdc58gBR7+edAzj59GlAChOGOyeDSps=; b=IriUxTKWwdufpiBV/oJ237JFA75dNf6WWbXPfd681ihZuI48IhBA6ICllNuThNlcp3 Rv65TyL/Rd5VLSwPMUYcrZVFo7F2Lk+x8em0zk05CBgbtyfIy6+8xknjyOUhodhhwrRr GJOPVrsUestmPv9RSbEjEqMhFsFGljrV+0tXEvU+V8nOgZ2NoqLyK0RjsyIKWZdfmT2h ggoIogSgqahJDKaB5BwLP4oJxnZUvrdDfb3GfptlPbZfhi3wvOHUiUZsu2lv7f98qFZm 9p1dNu0NiSWAnUsuaXHfBCJF6o18RBLUPrnGxL2PQJDqLtjKMGkDZDfTrorfkf8o0XMT 1a9w== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FVKR9eA5sd0xOoskLvrb+xpv8ADhB4IvSyY4VOQ6XfZhy6cewpd/RL6+mOuX9QLaOchkWxNVMZOdWMPkw== X-Received: by 10.107.136.69 with SMTP id k66mr32071597iod.0.1460818453250; Sat, 16 Apr 2016 07:54:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: X-Mailman-Original-References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:107096 On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 8:32 AM, Stephen Hansen wrote: > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016, at 01:51 AM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> Chris Angelico : >> >> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> >> It doesn't really matter one way or another. The true WTF is that it's >> >> been changed. >> > >> > Why? Was PEP 8 inscribed on stone tablets carried down from a mountain? >> >> In a way, yes. >> >> I don't follow PEP 8 to the tee; probably nobody does. However, I don't >> see the point of turning truckloads of exemplary Python code into >> truckloads of substandard Python code. > > This attitude is part of the problem: not following PEP8 does not make > code "substandard". PEP8 was never meant to be an authoritative metric > of 'good'. Its a set of guidelines that are subject to change over time > (this isn't even KINDA the first change!) and represent the core devs > taste and particular needs, and it goes out of its way to say that it is > only a suggestion and other concerns (especially local consistency) > override its advice. I have worked for many companies where you are required to get a clean run of pep8 on your code before your pull request will even be considered for approval. I don't agree with this at all, as I think it makes the code very ugly, especially enforcing the max line length. I have referred people to this, but it fell on blind eyes: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#a-foolish-consistency-is-the-hobgoblin-of-little-minds