Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!newsfeed.eweka.nl!feeder3.eweka.nl!81.171.88.15.MISMATCH!eweka.nl!feeder.eweka.nl!62.179.104.142.MISMATCH!amsnews11.chello.com!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'debug': 0.03; 'exception,': 0.07; 'something,': 0.07; 'subject:while': 0.07; 'used.': 0.07; 'python': 0.08; '*i*': 0.09; 'loop.': 0.09; 'throw': 0.09; 'c++': 0.12; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.15; 'received:74.125.82.44': 0.15; 'received:mail-ww0-f44.google.com': 0.15; '"while': 0.16; '++i)': 0.16; 'boolean': 0.16; 'driscoll': 0.16; 'evaluates': 0.16; 'iterator.': 0.16; 'throws': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'converted': 0.18; 'slightly': 0.19; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.21; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'faster,': 0.23; 'cc:2**0': 0.25; 'there.': 0.25; 'pm,': 0.26; "i'm": 0.27; 'bit': 0.28; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.29; '*and*': 0.30; 'least': 0.30; 'adds': 0.32; 'idea': 0.32; 'message-id:@gmail.com': 0.33; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.33; 'advocate': 0.34; 'builds': 0.34; 'integer': 0.34; 'latter': 0.34; 'typical': 0.34; 'received:74.125.82': 0.34; 'two': 0.37; 'but': 0.37; 'received:74.125': 0.37; 'received:google.com': 0.37; 'moment,': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'think': 0.38; 'received:192': 0.38; 'should': 0.38; "i'd": 0.39; 'point': 0.39; 'why': 0.39; 'subject:: ': 0.39; 'might': 0.40; 'accepts': 0.64; 'harder': 0.64; 'same,': 0.67; 'hate': 0.73; '06:05': 0.84; 'difference.': 0.84; 'hair,': 0.84; 'idiom': 0.84; 'place?': 0.84; 'supporter': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=G0BsSNLjf10mJnlKQveABJ3dHoc8MqF3og436ZaDr9k=; b=kvAZLGdO3mu8ajjYVrOF/MBAZqg5TI2I35brroEaJYhwx0KIk7FQGjjmi65uTvSmJA 7Zg9dK7hbQNbygRkIFBWKnPohUj3sdRmlZXMytY055oBU3Ls3nbY2s7AhzS5gcA45peS 88zLD6JpCu15Z61/SuEvQk9vxFNczVRGEgEqg= Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2012 20:50:11 +0000 From: Andrea Crotti User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:9.0) Gecko/20111224 Thunderbird/9.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Evan Driscoll Subject: Re: while True or while 1 References: <4F1AC1D4.2080402@gmail.com> <4F1DA186.1040807@wisc.edu> In-Reply-To: <4F1DA186.1040807@wisc.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: python-list@python.org X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1327351819 news.xs4all.nl 6918 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:41372 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:19286 On 01/23/2012 06:05 PM, Evan Driscoll wrote: > > To play devil's advocate for a moment, if you have the choice between > two ways of writing something, A and B, where both are basically the > same in terms of difficulty to write, difficulty to maintain, and > difficulty to understand, but A is faster than B, even if just by a > hair, why NOT write A? > > It's like 'iter++' vs '++iter' in a C++ for loop. For ints, or for > some iterators with optimization, it makes no difference. But the > latter will be faster in debug builds, and *might* be faster in > release builds if you have a complicated iterator. So why NOT make > for(...; ...; ++i) the typical way of writing a for loop? > > In the Python world, is 'while 1' any harder to understand than 'while > True'? I'm about as staunch a supporter as you'll find for the idea > that 'while 1' should throw an exception, and even *I* think that > 'while 1' is about the least-offensive idiom out there. If 'while 1' > throws you off, I'd hate to see what you do when you learn that Python > accepts loops like 'while x' where the condition evaluates to true if > x is a non-zero integer and false if x is 0. > > > All that said, I like the 'while "stuff to do"' idea. > > Evan I think it's not the same, iter++ or ++iter is exactly the same in terms of readability, so of course if one might be a bit faster, it should be used. while 1 works because the 1 is converted to boolean automatically, but why not just writing a boolean in the first place? It's not bad of course but to me it's not very Pythonic, and reminds me C. At that point I also prefer the "while 'might be long loop'" idea, which at least adds some value *and* it might be very slightly faster too.