Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'front-end': 0.07; 'postfix': 0.07; 'unsubscribed': 0.07; 'users,': 0.07; 'http': 0.09; 'moderation': 0.09; 'moderator': 0.09; 'subject:posting': 0.09; 'to:addr:pobox.com': 0.09; 'to:addr:skip': 0.09; 'mailman': 0.10; 'runs': 0.10; 'cc:addr :python-list': 0.11; 'spambayes': 0.12; 'wrote': 0.14; 'thread': 0.14; 'posted': 0.15; "'*h*':": 0.16; "'*s*':": 0.16; "'lists':": 0.16; '(sorry': 0.16; '0.00;': 0.16; '0.06;': 0.16; '0.09;': 0.16; '0.16;': 0.16; '0.19;': 0.16; '0.24;': 0.16; '0.25;': 0.16; '0.31;': 0.16; '0.32;': 0.16; '0.34;': 0.16; '0.36;': 0.16; '0.37;': 0.16; '0.38;': 0.16; '0.39;': 0.16; 'combinations': 0.16; 'fine.': 0.16; 'here).': 0.16; 'moderation,': 0.16; 'password,': 0.16; 'reason.': 0.16; 'smtp,': 0.16; 'timestamp': 0.16; '\xa0here': 0.16; 'mailman,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'looked': 0.18; 'year,': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'everyone,': 0.19; 'possible,': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'cc:addr:gmail.com': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**1': 0.23; "aren't": 0.24; 'headers': 0.24; 'skip': 0.24; 'earlier': 0.24; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.24; 'sort': 0.25; "i've": 0.25; '>': 0.26; '+0200': 0.26; 'somewhere': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; '(which': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; "skip:' 10": 0.31; '(cest)': 0.31; 'constant': 0.31; 'header,': 0.31; 'piece': 0.31; 'python.org.': 0.31; 'though.': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'lists': 0.32; 'python.org': 0.32; 'another': 0.32; 'url:python': 0.33; 'running': 0.33; 'fri,': 0.33; 'date:': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'passwords': 0.36; 'smtp': 0.36; 'subject:List': 0.36; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'behind': 0.37; 'half': 0.37; 'too': 0.37; 'requirements': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'list': 0.37; 'email addr:python.org': 0.37; 'skip:& 10': 0.38; 'gmail': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'flow': 0.39; 'hosted': 0.39; 'sure': 0.39; 'mailing': 0.39; 'users': 0.40; 'skip:x 10': 0.40; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'problems.': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'hope': 0.61; 'length': 0.61; 'times': 0.62; 'address': 0.63; 'name': 0.63; 'happen': 0.63; 'reached': 0.63; 'different': 0.65; 'email name:python- list': 0.65; 'within': 0.65; 'hours': 0.66; 'here': 0.66; 'direct': 0.67; 'attention.': 0.68; 'information:': 0.72; 'jul': 0.74; 'obvious': 0.74; 'score': 0.74; 'day': 0.76; 'behavior': 0.77; 'account.': 0.80; '"spam"': 0.84; 'delay.': 0.84; 'existence.': 0.84; 'malicious': 0.84; '(pdt)': 0.91; 'recipients,': 0.91; 'matter),': 0.93; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=Inwf5oOTTtdZC/KCOeXvnVVyIhCGlXVYQMeY2vtDfp8=; b=wd99x/WVetcM5wTvcfiCFn7sQgFFI0OiTy+K1I5Les4iS/J+UpOXEUMUx3ur8CGqdY udc+20+oYQLg73587MksCRQ9NB4jfYSIaXco62eC+VKpyi8gacuHZvlFfsPg76mztA9y j7igkO1h5WyNBN01a4pnbAOkdmVojqU8RsFNQkXWOzAIA4C0knVo3AazKAGcB7iFkzMm yImbVkrpwteZQvTaKlThQ8x9D0mzW3iQ2XorOmupvqtnan4OfMoRZtDdw+RLqpyMiJWo 7X3tmpIZRmFwLfQCW0oYcW7fawOfF5b1tD+qIde6piM6IL/FrTONOXdH+uj3hsepV52b slxQ== X-Received: by 10.43.119.73 with SMTP id ft9mr10816494icc.96.1374244089859; Fri, 19 Jul 2013 07:28:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: From: Matthew Lefavor Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 10:27:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Messages to Python-List aren't posting To: Skip Montanaro Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec51864c4cf969304e1de22b6 Cc: python-list@python.org X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 191 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1374244092 news.xs4all.nl 15975 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:50404 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:50908 --bcaec51864c4cf969304e1de22b6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 (Sorry to reply-all, but in this case I think the direct messages will get to people on this thread 12 hours earlier than the others.) Well, I have had this problem with both my work email (matthew dot lefavor _at_ nasa dpt gov) and my Gmail account. Since this doesn't happen to all users (nor all Gmail users, for that matter), the only thing that's constant here is that it's my name (well, and my password, but one would hope that passwords aren't relevant here). Is it possible that the name "Matthew Lefavor" has been added to a greylist or something? One relevant piece of information: I have subscribed and unsubscribed to different combinations of these lists several times over the past year, and particularly over the past few months (as I was trying to manage the flow of emails to my filter-less work inbox.) Could that sort of behavior associate my name with malicious intent? Matthew Lefavor On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote: > > Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 16:30:51 -0400 - timestamp of your mail > > Thu, 18 Jul 2013 13:30:51 -0700 (PDT) - you posted it via HTTP > > Thu, 18 Jul 2013 22:31:39 +0200 (CEST) - it reached python.org > > Fri, 19 Jul 2013 09:56:14 +0200 (CEST) - it began delivery to my address > > Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:56:15 -0700 (PDT) - it reached gmail and me. > > > > So the big delay is somewhere within python.org. Since this does NOT > > happen to everyone, I would be looking for something like: > > * Moderation requirements (does your message not comply with spec?) > > * Spam greylisting > > * Slow/glitchy DNS when attempting to verify your message > > > > Most likely I think is moderation, given the extreme length of time. > > Something would have to be pretty glitchy to lag your mail out for > > half a day in spam filtering. It's possible, I guess, though. I've no > > idea what anti-spam features the list is using. > > Python.org runs Mailman 2.1.something. In addition to all the various > front-end filters running in the Postfix SMTP daemon (which trap most > spam), SpamBayes is used as a last check to score messages intended > for delivery to most mailing lists hosted on mail.python.org. It > leaves two headers behind as proof of its existence. Here are those > headers for Matthew's message that started this thread: > > X-Spam-Status: OK 0.017 > X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; > 'problem?': 0.07; 'subject:posting': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; > 'posted': 0.15; 'effect.': 0.16; 'missing?': 0.16; 'python-dev,': > 0.16; 'server,': 0.19; 'all:': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; 'message- > id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'obscure': 0.31; 'lists': 0.32; > 'trouble': 0.34; 'anybody': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; > 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'subject:List': 0.36; > 'list.': 0.37; 'gmail': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; > 'issue': 0.38; 'moving': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; > 'mailing': 0.39; 'first': 0.61; 'hours': 0.66 > > so SpamBayes thought it looked fine. Had it been marked as "UNSURE" > or "SPAM" in the status header, Mailman would have held it for > moderator attention. It is possible it was held by Mailman for some > other reason. Some obvious reasons: sender isn't subscribed, message > had too many recipients, python-list@python.org was BCC'd (implicit > destination). If you message was held by Mailman, moderator overload > is the most likely cause of the delay. It's also possible Mailman got > overwhelmed, but I've seen no postmaster messages suggesting there > were any systemic problems. > > BTW, although SpamBayes serves as a last resort for mail arriving via > SMTP, it is the only line of defense for mail gatewayed from Usenet. > I'm sure I can dredge up the code I wrote for that if anyone wants it > for another application. > > Skip > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > --bcaec51864c4cf969304e1de22b6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(Sorry to reply-all, but in this case I think the direct m= essages will get to people on this thread 12 hours earlier than the others.= )

Well, I have had this problem with both my work email = (matthew dot lefavor _at_ nasa dpt gov) and my Gmail account. Since this do= esn't happen to all users (nor all Gmail users, for that matter), the o= nly thing that's constant here is that it's my name (well, and my p= assword, but one would hope that passwords aren't relevant here). Is it= possible that the name "Matthew Lefavor" has been added to a gre= ylist or something?

One relevant piece of information: I have subscribed an= d unsubscribed to different combinations of these lists several times over = the past year, and particularly over the past few months (as I was trying t= o manage the flow of emails to my filter-less work inbox.) Could that sort = of behavior associate my name with malicious intent?=A0

Matthew Lefavor


On Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Skip Mo= ntanaro <skip@pobox.com> wrote:
> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 201= 3 16:30:51 -0400 - timestamp of your mail
> Thu, 18 Jul 2013 13:30:51 -0700 (PDT) - you posted it via HTTP
> Thu, 18 Jul 2013 22:31:39 +0200 (CEST) - it reached python.org
> Fri, 19 Jul 2013 09:56:14 +0200 (CEST) - it began delivery to my addre= ss
> Fri, 19 Jul 2013 00:56:15 -0700 (PDT) - it reached gmail and me.
>
> So the big delay is somewhere within python.org. Since this does NOT
> happen to everyone, I would be looking for something like:
> * Moderation requirements (does your message not comply with spec?) > * Spam greylisting
> * Slow/glitchy DNS when attempting to verify your message
>
> Most likely I think is moderation, given the extreme length of time. > Something would have to be pretty glitchy to lag your mail out for
> half a day in spam filtering. It's possible, I guess, though. I= 9;ve no
> idea what anti-spam features the list is using.

Python.org runs Mailman 2.1.something. =A0In addition to all the vari= ous
front-end filters running in the Postfix SMTP daemon (which trap most
spam), SpamBayes is used as a last check to score messages intended
for delivery to most mailing lists hosted on mail.python.org. It
leaves two headers behind as proof of its existence. =A0Here are those
headers for Matthew's message that started this thread:

X-Spam-Status: OK 0.017
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Pyt= hon': 0.06;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 'problem?': 0.07; 'subject:posting': 0.09; = 'python': 0.11;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 'posted': 0.15; 'effect.': 0.16; 'missi= ng?': 0.16; 'python-dev,':
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 0.16; 'server,': 0.19; 'all:': 0.24; "= i've": 0.25; 'message-
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 id:@mail.gmail.com<= /a>': 0.30; 'obscure': 0.31; 'lists': 0.32;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 'trouble': 0.34; 'anybody': 0.35; 'but&= #39;: 0.35;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'subject:List'= : 0.36;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 'list.': 0.37; 'gmail': 0.38; 'to:addr:= python-list': 0.38;
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 'issue': 0.38; 'moving': 0.39; 'to:addr= :python.org': 0.39;=
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 'mailing': 0.39; 'first': 0.61; 'hours&= #39;: 0.66

so SpamBayes thought it looked fine. =A0Had it been marked as "UNSURE&= quot;
or "SPAM" in the status header, Mailman would have held it for moderator attention. =A0It is possible it was held by Mailman for some
other reason. =A0Some obvious reasons: sender isn't subscribed, message=
had too many recipients, python-l= ist@python.org was BCC'd (implicit
destination). If you message was held by Mailman, moderator overload
is the most likely cause of the delay. =A0It's also possible Mailman go= t
overwhelmed, but I've seen no postmaster messages suggesting there
were any systemic problems.

BTW, although SpamBayes serves as a last resort for mail arriving via
SMTP, it is the only line of defense for mail gatewayed from Usenet.
I'm sure I can dredge up the code I wrote for that if anyone wants it for another application.

Skip
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

--bcaec51864c4cf969304e1de22b6--