Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.008 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages.': 0.04; 'syntax': 0.04; 'explicitly': 0.05; 'assignment': 0.07; 'literal': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; '(1,': 0.16; 'assignment?': 0.16; 'expression.': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'notation': 0.16; 'personally,': 0.16; 'subtraction': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'differ': 0.19; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'least': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'nature': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'equality': 0.31; 'fault': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'symbolic': 0.31; 'though.': 0.31; 'fri,': 0.33; 'problem': 0.35; 'agree': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'similar': 0.36; 'too': 0.37; 'pm,': 0.38; 'easy': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'tell': 0.60; 'length': 0.61; 'visa': 0.61; 'more': 0.64; 'obvious': 0.74; 'difference.': 0.84; 'inherent': 0.84; 'favour': 0.91; 'mistakenly': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=w7T1m+241s6SaSl6wPhMCUfyb7Fgpf1PSMD1eFPjJ1A=; b=UX5gR436P3y5tJs/ggB/e+ixHr5E5rIZjJjmcAURrbLdoBpHqDB2WGgi7CEu4K+FJZ pr8n+NmHEs5aCim+pYrRfKuBPcYxBcqW+xqGIMWy3Sk5mG+5xFHFZM2YCmV2fKMJAagt bXOoAfE3lx46qIpwXkN4OPflnRpB125TTXLxVlGBnPHxEaS/pDPUGsXhtArSTGUl5GyU IRRDcsNbYP990ZLR18HOPXTQbTCBSQC+zkLnp9sOHxKepxprhJNrKUZLREhvv6LXGJGu 2lvNdPIyragkR9Palh1sK8N3vc096x7MWv0tvEc/xpKRi3CYLR0fOi/rfYbAYA6ja9MV gAgQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.196.193 with SMTP id io1mr92646436pbc.46.1388721324431; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 19:55:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52c62fa8$0$30001$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <52C59FF6.5000607@allsup.co> <52c62fa8$0$30001$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2014 14:55:24 +1100 Subject: Re: Ifs and assignments From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1388721334 news.xs4all.nl 2893 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:48568 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:63024 On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 2:33 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Personally, I find it hard to care about assignment as an expression. I find > the obvious C-inspired syntax terrible, as it is too easy to mistakenly use > == instead of = or visa versa: Python has similar problems, though. It's inherent to the nature of symbolic languages. a = (1, 2, 3) b = {1, 2, 3} In many fonts, it's hard to tell one from the other without peering. Do people decry set literal notation in favour of explicitly writing the word "set"? No; and I think most of us agree that it's better to have the symbols. At least with == vs = there's a length difference. I don't think it's C's fault or problem that equality and assignment look similar and can be used in the same places, any more than it's a problem to have assignment and subtraction differ by only one stroke: a - (1, 2, 3) Is that confusingly similar to assignment? ChrisA