Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!news.mixmin.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!bcyclone05.am1.xlned.com!bcyclone05.am1.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.053 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.89; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages,': 0.04; 'say,': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'brasil': 0.07; 'happen.': 0.09; 'subject: [': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'slip': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'minutes.': 0.22; '(or': 0.24; 'switch': 0.26; 'second': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'van': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'subject:) ': 0.29; 'tim': 0.29; 'related': 0.29; 'mix': 0.30; 'returned': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'commonly': 0.31; 'occurs': 0.31; "they'll": 0.31; "year's": 0.31; 'languages': 0.32; 'everyone': 0.33; 'ago': 0.33; 'to:name:python- list': 0.33; "i'd": 0.34; 'except': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'example,': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'e.g.': 0.38; 'others.': 0.38; 'subject:]': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'previous': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'exposure': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'march': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'exchange': 0.63; 'talking': 0.65; 'between': 0.67; 'close': 0.67; 'long-term': 0.74; 'participants': 0.83; '2015': 0.84; 'expresses': 0.84; 'grew': 0.84; 'phenomenon': 0.84; 'stay.': 0.84; 'subject:Practices': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=LexKO/E9DSWdJoSaJy1NuPgBnyO2AI2wdgVDsh550JM=; b=ztjSth4m4OuHcj/EmrnTn3ZOGTfqb+oWyecZoZp23loRuyh5uB3dYtlTYRn7O9VTis EqBm2ydwEFqyaq1Lj8XMqcZ5VtJOR9klN03bX2Xw2aJH5qEO6D3jw5G0TO9qAI82kkTf ZB0dtSrOS7cWaYiUNn62NEwawQYtd2vUsM1Sa2plH1gqyB29/EVRRmFKpJ4QrGyLpY2s 3etB+Go83erxQWTYiTbI80L+Qzj35k6FA1KcOOoHZ6aYDQ9Ti1TyyJsVAmxTkkys8ExP ye1B66K1Uh8EsGgL3XHj+dJ7n7c3gWHSmxynZV8gO0xqndy7beQAOmWEZYhiN2dnGAYf 2aqg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.181.13.146 with SMTP id ey18mr60985681wid.84.1425512167724; Wed, 04 Mar 2015 15:36:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <8761ak7kxm.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87sido6491.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <6d6033b8-d228-4f5f-ac68-ae5b2a226431@googlegroups.com> <87d24regm6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <54f4763c$0$12979$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87twy34dst.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <726afahrhnim716av2dnckrsd9n5j5kukj@4ax.com> <21dafa533nrsmktshd35kdbd13ahgj50bf@4ax.com> <87fv9k2999.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <54f7599d$0$12988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <8761ag36du.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <54f766ea$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 10:36:07 +1100 Subject: Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] From: Tim Delaney To: Python-List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c81fa615de405107eeaf6 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.19 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 72 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1425512168 news.xs4all.nl 2934 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:48177 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl X-Received-Bytes: 8184 X-Received-Body-CRC: 3821199549 Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:86919 --f46d043c81fa615de405107eeaf6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 5 March 2015 at 09:39, Emile van Sebille wrote: > On 3/4/2015 12:40 PM, Tim Delaney wrote: > >> A related thing is when you have multiple multi-lingual people talking >> together where at least two of their languages match (or are close >> enough for most uses e.g. Spanish and Portuguese). They'll slip in and >> out of multiple languages depending on which best expresses what they're >> trying to say, and no one will involved realise. >> > > Except for my poor grandmother who hadn't understood a word my mother had > said the previous ten minutes. :) The phenomenon I'm talking about involves people switching languages mid-sentence without the participants noticing. It mainly occurs with people who grew up speaking multiple languages, and commonly switch between them in their thoughts. If your grandmother learned her second/third/etc languages after she was a teenager then it's likely she mainly thinks in one language and translates to others. It can also be seen with people who have recently had long-term saturation exposure to a second language - for example, exchange students who have just come back from a year's stay. When I'd recently returned from Brasil (20-odd years ago now ...) there was one time when everyone was a native (Australia) english speaker and had a mix of latin-based second languages - that was close enough for it to happen. Tim Delaney --f46d043c81fa615de405107eeaf6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 5= March 2015 at 09:39, Emile van Sebille <emile@fenx.com> wrote:=
On 3/4/2015 12:40 PM, T= im Delaney wrote:
A related thing is when you have multiple multi-lingual people talking
together where at least two of their languages match (or are close
enough for most uses e.g. Spanish and Portuguese). They'll slip in and<= br> out of multiple languages depending on which best expresses what they'r= e
trying to say, and no one will involved realise.

 Except for my poor grandmother who hadn't understood a word my mother h= ad said the previous ten minutes.=C2=A0 :)

= The phenomenon I'm talking about involves people switching languages mi= d-sentence without the participants noticing. It mainly occurs with people = who grew up speaking multiple languages, and commonly switch between them i= n their thoughts. If your grandmother learned her second/third/etc language= s after she was a teenager then it's likely she mainly thinks in one la= nguage and translates to others.

It can also be se= en with people who have recently had long-term saturation exposure to a sec= ond language - for example, exchange students who have just come back from = a year's stay. When I'd recently returned from Brasil (20-odd years= ago now ...) there was one time when everyone was a native (Australia) eng= lish speaker and had a mix of latin-based second languages - that was close= enough for it to happen.

Tim Delaney=C2=A0
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