Path: csiph.com!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.122 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.76; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:: [': 0.03; 'binary': 0.05; 'dst': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; '(aka': 0.09; 'creighton': 0.09; 'least)': 0.09; '(at': 0.13; 'read.': 0.13; 'prototype': 0.15; '"while': 0.16; '460': 0.16; '_do_': 0.16; 'acted': 0.16; 'affiliations': 0.16; 'archives,': 0.16; 'discrepancy': 0.16; 'eggert': 0.16; 'entries.': 0.16; 'evening,': 0.16; 'practices.': 0.16; 'railroad': 0.16; 'towns': 0.16; 'well- known': 0.16; 'wisconsin': 0.16; 'library,': 0.18; 'odd': 0.18; 'switched': 0.18; ';-)': 0.18; 'subject:] ': 0.19; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'cc:2**1': 0.22; 'lunch': 0.22; 'precise': 0.22; 'subject:skip:i 10': 0.22; 'seems': 0.23; 'communities': 0.23; 'split': 0.23; 'plain': 0.24; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'paul': 0.24; 'appear': 0.26; 'chris': 0.26; '(e.g.': 0.27; 'mostly': 0.27; 'question': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'url:gov': 0.27; 'actual': 0.28; 'boundary': 0.29; 'comments': 0.30; 'law.': 0.30; 'skip:[ 10': 0.31; 'guess': 0.31; 'rules': 0.31; '"the': 0.32; 'generally': 0.32; 'run': 0.33; 'source': 0.33; 'common': 0.33; "i'll": 0.33; 'case,': 0.34; 'covered': 0.34; 'file': 0.34; 'except': 0.34; 'handle': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'could': 0.35; 'text': 0.35; 'attempt': 0.35; 'direction': 0.35; 'question,': 0.35; 'star': 0.35; "isn't": 0.35; 'community': 0.36; 'but': 0.36; 'instead': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'serve': 0.36; '(and': 0.36; 'notes': 0.36; 'subject:" ': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'really': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'expect': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'difference': 0.38; 'late': 0.38; 'names': 0.38; 'mean': 0.38; 'hi,': 0.38; 'end': 0.39; 'means': 0.39; 'data': 0.39; "didn't": 0.39; 'area': 0.39; 'subject:-': 0.39; 'rather': 0.39; 'build': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; "you'll": 0.61; 'default': 0.61; 'school': 0.62; 'mountain': 0.63; 'saturday,': 0.63; 'town': 0.63; 'personal': 0.63; 'different': 0.63; 'information': 0.63; 'within': 0.64; 'our': 0.64; 'url:pdf': 0.64; 'other.': 0.64; 'story': 0.65; 'between': 0.65; 'city': 0.65; 'air': 0.65; 'department.': 0.66; 'eastern': 0.66; 'elsewhere': 0.66; 'lake': 0.66; 'state,': 0.66; 'subject:there': 0.66; 'winter': 0.66; 'decided': 0.66; 'north': 0.67; 'talking': 0.67; 'services': 0.67; 'act': 0.67; 'family': 0.68; 'hour': 0.69; 'opt': 0.79; 'savings': 0.79; '1960s.': 0.84; '1965': 0.84; 'adoption': 0.84; 'matthews': 0.84; 'nearby': 0.84; 'presumably': 0.84; 'subject:any': 0.84; 'url:documents': 0.84; 'wanted,': 0.84; 'western': 0.89; '1970': 0.91; 'adopt': 0.91; 'dust': 0.91; 'swift': 0.91; 'round,': 0.93; 'subject:Are': 0.95 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=WFnzmw26fQRJinatm0mHh4ZxjlhWSnRIpOg/oMGFFv0=; b=kHYW11Lyn1s+fm9lqeWCnXMkVva9YdODN4BHBmHjx5l9PRzjG1LUgnOttrm+nlNKDl w+Ji1QMEYlsGsClA7CZ+5PW33I+tcPqmklwyRojsx6zw6sVFgQwBefgmeSjwLNF8DCT2 faQngGhHOVogVreQqFWyQXddctdjefZe2wp1lW5PlqGpqdlDzvRdTyb/6GO8bBDQWinb I1AjwgwP9w59jBzU6l5vvMaMPczbgmmPoGR4uH9lZa5kPuhU2iR7f7rM0Er1hR1brQ+f 7y/KmrXgqnWlAVTv7L02UmCwgmw3WpqpQg53RZv5Oh7OxRUeZvZJUY71SzRvd3Tu30jF pcpw== X-Received: by 10.60.92.199 with SMTP id co7mr7323612oeb.37.1442158064688; Sun, 13 Sep 2015 08:27:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <201509131224.t8DCOXHO004891@fido.openend.se> References: <1442085362.324875.381920729.5E7A6DCE@webmail.messagingengine.com> <201509131224.t8DCOXHO004891@fido.openend.se> From: Tim Peters Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 10:27:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [Datetime-SIG] Are there any "correct" implementations of tzinfo? To: Laura Creighton Cc: Python-List , datetime-sig Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 94 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1442158073 news.xs4all.nl 23847 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:39628 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96505 [Alex] >>I will try to create a zoneinfo wrapping prototype as well, but I will >>probably "cheat" and build it on top of pytz. [Laura Creighton] > My question, is whether it will handle Creighton, Saskatchewan, Canada? > Creighton is an odd little place. Like all of Saskatchewan, it is > in the Central time zone, even though you would expect it to be > in the Mountain time zone based on its location on the globe. > The people of Saskatchewan have decided not to adopt Daylight > Savings time. Except for the people of Creighton (and > nearby Denare Beach) -- who _do_ observe Daylight savings time. > > makes for an interesting corner case, one that I remember for > personal (and not economic, or professional) reasons. Hi, Laura! By "zoneinfo" here, we mean the IANA (aka "Olson") time zone database, which is ubiquitous on (at least) Linux: https://www.iana.org/time-zones So "will a wrapping of zoneinfo handle XYZ?" isn't so much a question about the wrapping as about what's in the IANA database. Best guess is that Creighton's rules are covered by that database's America/Winnipeg entries. It's generally true that the database makes no attempt to name every location on the planet. Instead it uses names of the form "general/specific" where "general" limits the scope to some large area of the Earth (here "America" really means "North America"), and "specific" names a well-known city within that area. For example, I live in Ashland, Wisconsin (extreme far north in that state, on Lake Superior), but so far as IANA is concerned my time zone rules are called "America/Chicago" (some 460 air miles SSE, in a different state). Just for fun, I'll paste in the comments from the Saskatchewan section of IANA's "northamerica" data file (a plain text source file from which binary tzfiles like America/Chicago and America/Winnipeg are generated). You'll see Creighton mentioned if you stay alert ;-) # Saskatchewan # From Mark Brader (2003-07-26): # The first actual adoption of DST in Canada was at the municipal # level. As the [Toronto] Star put it (1912-06-07), "While people # elsewhere have long been talking of legislation to save daylight, # the city of Moose Jaw [Saskatchewan] has acted on its own hook." # DST in Moose Jaw began on Saturday, 1912-06-01 (no time mentioned: # presumably late evening, as below), and would run until "the end of # the summer". The discrepancy between municipal time and railroad # time was noted. # From Paul Eggert (2003-07-27): # Willett (1914-03) notes that DST "has been in operation ... in the # City of Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, for one year." # From Paul Eggert (2006-03-22): # Shanks & Pottenger say that since 1970 this region has mostly been as Regina. # Some western towns (e.g. Swift Current) switched from MST/MDT to CST in 1972. # Other western towns (e.g. Lloydminster) are like Edmonton. # Matthews and Vincent (1998) write that Denare Beach and Creighton # are like Winnipeg, in violation of Saskatchewan law. # From W. Jones (1992-11-06): # The. . .below is based on information I got from our law library, the # provincial archives, and the provincial Community Services department. # A precise history would require digging through newspaper archives, and # since you didn't say what you wanted, I didn't bother. # # Saskatchewan is split by a time zone meridian (105W) and over the years # the boundary became pretty ragged as communities near it reevaluated # their affiliations in one direction or the other. In 1965 a provincial # referendum favoured legislating common time practices. # # On 15 April 1966 the Time Act (c. T-14, Revised Statutes of # Saskatchewan 1978) was proclaimed, and established that the eastern # part of Saskatchewan would use CST year round, that districts in # northwest Saskatchewan would by default follow CST but could opt to # follow Mountain Time rules (thus 1 hour difference in the winter and # zero in the summer), and that districts in southwest Saskatchewan would # by default follow MT but could opt to follow CST. # # It took a few years for the dust to settle (I know one story of a town # on one time zone having its school in another, such that a mom had to # serve her family lunch in two shifts), but presently it seems that only # a few towns on the border with Alberta (e.g. Lloydminster) follow MT # rules any more; all other districts appear to have used CST year round # since sometime in the 1960s. # From Chris Walton (2006-06-26): # The Saskatchewan time act which was last updated in 1996 is about 30 pages # long and rather painful to read. # http://www.qp.gov.sk.ca/documents/English/Statutes/Statutes/T14.pdf