Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!news.alt.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!194.109.133.84.MISMATCH!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.023 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.95; '*S*': 0.00; '*not*': 0.05; ':-)': 0.06; 'c++,': 0.07; 'reason.': 0.07; 'header:In-reply-to:1': 0.09; 'immutable': 0.09; 'programmer': 0.10; 'am,': 0.12; 'c++': 0.12; 'subject:copy': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; "wouldn't": 0.17; 'wonder': 0.23; 'objects,': 0.23; "python's": 0.24; '22,': 0.30; 'received:144': 0.30; 'semantics': 0.30; '(e.g.': 0.30; 'implementing': 0.32; 'suggested': 0.32; 'does': 0.32; 'objects': 0.32; 'implement': 0.32; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.33; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.33; 'wondering': 0.34; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'with.': 0.37; 'received:128': 0.37; 'somewhat': 0.38; 'why': 0.39; 'either': 0.39; 'sense': 0.39; 'subject:: ': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'effective': 0.61; 'fact,': 0.63; 'view': 0.64; 'ever': 0.64; 'perfect': 0.64; 'different.': 0.84; 'left,': 0.84; 'right)': 0.84; 'subject:write': 0.84; 'magical': 0.93 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII; format=flowed Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:24:28 -0600 From: Evan Driscoll Subject: Re: copy on write In-reply-to: <9nb5ubFu17U2@mid.individual.net> To: python-list@python.org X-Spam-Report: AuthenticatedSender=yes, SenderIP=128.105.181.52 X-Spam-PmxInfo: Server=avs-9, Version=5.6.1.2065439, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.376379, Antispam-Data: 2012.1.13.191217, SenderIP=128.105.181.52 References: <4f101f45$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <9nb5ubFu17U2@mid.individual.net> User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-US; rv:1.9.2.17) Gecko/20110414 Thunderbird/3.1.10 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1326486286 news.xs4all.nl 6879 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:57363 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:18942 On 01/13/2012 10:54 AM, Neil Cerutti wrote: > If you've ever implemented operator=, operator+, and operator+= > in C++ you'll know how and why they are different. At the same time, you'd also know that that implementing them in such a way that 'a += b' does *not* perform the same action as 'a = a + b' is considered very bad-mannered. In fact, it's often suggested (e.g. in "More Effective C++"'s Item 22, though this is not the main thrust of that section) to implement operator+ in terms of += to ensure that this is the case: MyType operator+ (MyType left, MyType right) { MyType copy = left; copy += right; return copy; } > A C++ > programmer would be wondering how either can work on immutable > objects, and that's where Python's magical rebinding semantics > come into play. IMO a C++ programmer wouldn't be likely to wonder that much at all because he or she wouldn't view the objects as immutable to begin with. :-) 'x = 5; x += 1;' makes perfect sense in C++, just for a somewhat different reason. Evan