Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.179 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.65; '*S*': 0.00; 'referring': 0.07; 'subject: + ': 0.07; 'refresh': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'suggest': 0.14; 'fine.': 0.16; 'ignoring': 0.16; 'words.': 0.16; '\xc2\xa0you': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'wed,': 0.18; 'pointed': 0.19; 'work,': 0.20; 'help.': 0.21; '>>>': 0.22; 'memory': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; "haven't": 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'least': 0.26; '(for': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'dec': 0.30; 'subject:list': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'url:mailman': 0.30; '25,': 0.31; 'bad.': 0.31; 'fault': 0.31; 'please.': 0.31; 'url:python': 0.33; 'bugs': 0.33; 'reader': 0.33; 'moment': 0.34; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'google': 0.35; 'url:listinfo': 0.36; "i'll": 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'so,': 0.37; 'list.': 0.37; 'skip:& 10': 0.38; 'fact': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'little': 0.38; 'users': 0.40; 'url:mail': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'affect': 0.61; 'refer': 0.63; 'email addr:yahoo.com': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'great': 0.65; 'sound': 0.68; 'results': 0.69; 'helping': 0.70; 'christmas': 0.74; 'gotten': 0.74; 'groups.': 0.74; 'repeat': 0.74; 'subject:this': 0.83; 'batchelder': 0.84; 'extent.': 0.84; 'groups:': 0.84; 'subtly': 0.84; 'temperature': 0.84; 'careful': 0.91; 'hate': 0.91; 'joel': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=niPh9fW2O6EYCMvr3HM8ySbmwDUkpkZ734eJ88fwF4Y=; b=ICwK7sEYrX5Eu58nsd8+Qt124/Wtbk3yCAVnF6P6sy5uH/JSZgieTj4fR1eO5JwUuA iLzWdUUOJLYwpXkNxsGU6kznb7oWYUYVbj+ZPGrU6B2UDPdEXApA58T1zq142kjVtGKi k0FvbeazkH210gnb/B7tBGVmZBKwVQEKPwrCfP2KQQFWEANBzvHgw6kbkm0K6EZL2qy7 7mREtR5Y+1ghe9w5FI3zPjNeN+yg3p0rm8ag/mz51AgTYdXw5hSNya5IFUuHML0Yh1pP oFMZeuK2sKIubTbYx7i1NlnIN7A1Vc1Hxdb0R8wF4oWwAHtBvOR7KCZCNRN3MBf5PCw8 M+uQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.67.9 with SMTP id j9mr19004332vet.3.1387974358235; Wed, 25 Dec 2013 04:25:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <5a15bd65-8183-48be-8ac2-be0666fed75d@googlegroups.com> <42b963e8-635c-4e1c-b638-d64384900720@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2013 07:25:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Google Groups + this list From: Joel Goldstick To: Ned Batchelder Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b339e0794838504ee5af672 Cc: "python-list@python.org" X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 145 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1387974367 news.xs4all.nl 2951 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38415 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:62703 --047d7b339e0794838504ee5af672 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Ned Batchelder wrote: > On 12/24/13 8:47 PM, rurpy@yahoo.com wrote: > >> On 12/23/2013 09:12 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> Also, >>> you haven't answered the other part of the post, the more important >>> part. >>> >> >> Refresh my memory please. >> >> > Ugh, stop! We get it: you don't think Google Groups is bad. Or you think > it can be made to work, or something. That's fine. But you are going to > have to reason a little more subtly than, "all software has bugs." > > As Chris has pointed out, the bugs in Google Groups affect every reader of > the list. Bugs in other software don't, at least not to the same extent. > > Rurpy, you seem to be willfully ignoring the aggravation people are > experiencing. And people who hate Google Groups: you seem to be > overlooking the fact that it's difficult for the users of Google Groups to > understand its flaws, or to see the effect it has on the list. > > I'll repeat my proposal (for everyone): > > > 1) Don't fault newcomers for using Google Groups. Politely suggest > alternatives, but only if you are also helping them, or if they have > already gotten help. > > 2) Be careful how you rail against Google Groups. When you call its > results "crap" (for example), it can sound like an insult to the poster. > You mean to refer to Google Groups, but remember you are also referring to > the poster's words. > > 3) Don't let's get into protracted internal debates about Google Groups. > It is for the moment at least, an unavoidable part of this list. > > Do you disagree? > > > -- > Ned Batchelder, http://nedbatchelder.com > > -- > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > I'm with Ned. Ned you do a great job lowering the temperature here. This group has lots of signal, but alas lots and lots of noise. So, even though its not my holiday, Merry Christmas to all of you knuckleheads, and good people! -- Joel Goldstick http://joelgoldstick.com --047d7b339e0794838504ee5af672 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Wed, Dec 25, 2013 at 7:19 AM, Ned Batchelder &= lt;ned@nedbatche= lder.com> wrote:
On 12/24/13 8:47 PM, rurpy@yahoo.com wrote:<= br>
On 12/23/2013 09:12 AM, Chris Angelico wrote:

Also,
you haven't answered the other part of the post, the more important
part.

Refresh my memory please.


Ugh, stop! =C2=A0We get it: you don't think Google Groups is bad. =C2= =A0Or you think it can be made to work, or something. =C2=A0That's fine= . =C2=A0But you are going to have to reason a little more subtly than, &quo= t;all software has bugs."

As Chris has pointed out, the bugs in Google Groups affect every reader of = the list. =C2=A0Bugs in other software don't, at least not to the same = extent.

Rurpy, you seem to be willfully ignoring the aggravation people are experie= ncing. =C2=A0And people who hate Google Groups: you seem to be overlooking = the fact that it's difficult for the users of Google Groups to understa= nd its flaws, or to see the effect it has on the list.

I'll repeat my proposal (for everyone):


1) Don't fault newcomers for using Google Groups. =C2=A0Politely sugges= t alternatives, but only if you are also helping them, or if they have alre= ady gotten help.

2) Be careful how you rail against Google Groups. =C2=A0When you call its r= esults "crap" (for example), it can sound like an insult to the p= oster. =C2=A0You mean to refer to Google Groups, but remember you are also = referring to the poster's words.

3) Don't let's get into protracted internal debates about Google Gr= oups. =C2=A0It is for the moment at least, an unavoidable part of this list= .

Do you disagree?


--
Ned Batchelder, http= ://nedbatchelder.com

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


I'm with Ned.=C2=A0 Ned you do a great job lowering the temp= erature here.=C2=A0 This group has lots of signal, but alas lots and lots o= f noise.

So, even though its not my holiday, Me= rry Christmas to all of you knuckleheads, and good people!
--
Joel Goldstick
http://joelgoldstick.c= om
--047d7b339e0794838504ee5af672--