Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4a.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.113 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.77; '*S*': 0.00; 'say,': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'back.': 0.09; 'subject: [': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'neutral': 0.16; 'slip': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'tend': 0.24; 'fairly': 0.24; '(or': 0.24; 'least': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.27; 'subject:) ': 0.29; 'tim': 0.29; 'related': 0.29; 'strongly': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'comments': 0.31; 'usually': 0.31; '(although': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; "they'll": 0.31; 'languages': 0.32; 'another': 0.32; 'beginning': 0.33; 'to:name:python-list': 0.33; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'changing': 0.37; 'seconds': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'problems': 0.38; 'e.g.': 0.38; 'generic': 0.38; 'subject:]': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'even': 0.60; 'voice': 0.60; 'wife': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'march': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'hear': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'talking': 0.65; 'teach': 0.65; 'within': 0.65; 'close': 0.67; '2015': 0.84; 'expresses': 0.84; 'subject:Practices': 0.84; 'unaware': 0.84; 'incredibly': 0.96 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ZaK/NjNmzBOXfwR0BQDAEV48SsgeZd082bKcbu+I9U4=; b=qximifeSwq+LbEjShNLrKvHxKyzVKV3SVYE9PdxVW2T8o1zGqnPIB+hdudXQpmVQBJ OUDwphCiQh2fvmoK9Vjn1GRO0H/J+Wvl4Ugx7j8MzDxXv9MKAe5QsT+zo98+qYwbXmrp 9BLUhXzB015oSCOSiCHcY63wSynN2nYKr+lTCldzYqpik4+t9ke6y7BbJz9lmCcYfPgN o65K319lTKcAUM9ZOZXo1x8ME6EiRo1lcEpKadxLSPOhwqjRQRt/y13UK5ZCHlZT6Roc iyBvvKamIbqa/aItlFF0mclPJG3qCVNJLQLLr6PfA4/QyAds6I37Pt2XTKtURISEe9WS 2RDw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.181.13.146 with SMTP id ey18mr60025959wid.84.1425501621267; Wed, 04 Mar 2015 12:40:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54f766ea$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <8761ak7kxm.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87sido6491.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <6d6033b8-d228-4f5f-ac68-ae5b2a226431@googlegroups.com> <87d24regm6.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <54f4763c$0$12979$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87twy34dst.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <726afahrhnim716av2dnckrsd9n5j5kukj@4ax.com> <21dafa533nrsmktshd35kdbd13ahgj50bf@4ax.com> <87fv9k2999.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <54f7599d$0$12988$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <8761ag36du.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <54f766ea$0$12992$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Thu, 5 Mar 2015 07:40:21 +1100 Subject: Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices] From: Tim Delaney To: Python-List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c81fac333bb05107c75a7 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.19 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 63 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1425501628 news.xs4all.nl 2948 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:55100 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:86917 --f46d043c81fac333bb05107c75a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 5 March 2015 at 07:11, Steven D'Aprano < steve+comp.lang.python@pearwood.info> wrote: > > As for your comments about spoken accents, I sympathise. But changing > accents is very hard for most people (although a very few people find it > incredibly easy). Even professionals typically need to have voice coaches > to teach them to change accents successfully. One of the problems is that > most people don't hear their own accent. My wife usually has a fairly > generic English accent that most people think is American, but within > seconds of beginning to talk to another Irish person she is speaking in a > full-blown Irish accent, and she is *completely* unaware of it. This is very much the case - any time someone is reacquainted with their native accent they tend to strongly slip back into it, and it takes some time to get their more neutral accent back. A related thing is when you have multiple multi-lingual people talking together where at least two of their languages match (or are close enough for most uses e.g. Spanish and Portuguese). They'll slip in and out of multiple languages depending on which best expresses what they're trying to say, and no one will involved realise. Tim Delaney --f46d043c81fac333bb05107c75a7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 5= March 2015 at 07:11, Steven D'Aprano <steve+comp.l= ang.python@pearwood.info> wrote:

As for your comments about spoken accents, I sympathise. But changing
accents is very hard for most people (although a very few people find it incredibly easy). Even professionals typically need to have voice coaches to teach them to change accents successfully. One of the problems is that most people don't hear their own accent. My wife usually has a fairly generic English accent that most people think is American, but within
seconds of beginning to talk to another Irish person she is speaking in a full-blown Irish accent, and she is *completely* unaware of it.

This is very much the case - any time someone is reacq= uainted with their native accent they tend to strongly slip back into it, a= nd it takes some time to get their more neutral accent back.

=
A related thing is when you have multiple multi-lingual people t= alking together where at least two of their languages match (or are close e= nough for most uses e.g. Spanish and Portuguese). They'll slip in and o= ut of multiple languages depending on which best expresses what they're= trying to say, and no one will involved realise.

= Tim Delaney=C2=A0
--f46d043c81fac333bb05107c75a7--