Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!tudelft.nl!txtfeed1.tudelft.nl!newsfeed10.multikabel.net!multikabel.net!newsfeed20.multikabel.net!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.089 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.82; '*S*': 0.00; 'languages,': 0.03; 'classes.': 0.05; 'posting.': 0.07; 'am,': 0.12; 'argument': 0.15; '"computer': 0.16; 'reply-to:addr:python-list': 0.16; 'subject:engineering': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'extension': 0.17; 'wrote:': 0.18; "they've": 0.18; 'community,': 0.19; 'programming': 0.20; 'java': 0.21; 'memory': 0.21; 'maybe': 0.21; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'feature.': 0.23; 'fine': 0.24; 'code,': 0.28; "i'm": 0.28; 'introductory': 0.29; 'true,': 0.29; 'problem': 0.29; 'subject:?': 0.31; 'programmers': 0.32; 'scientific': 0.32; 'this.': 0.33; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.33; 'it.': 0.33; 'lee': 0.34; 'reply-to:addr:python.org': 0.34; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.35; 'issue': 0.37; 'but': 0.37; 'spread': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; "i'd": 0.39; 'application': 0.40; 'point': 0.40; 'raw': 0.40; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'type': 0.61; 'your': 0.61; 'increase': 0.62; 'projects': 0.63; 'auto': 0.63; 'header:Reply-To:1': 0.70; 'reply-to:no real name:2**0': 0.72; 'billion': 0.73; 'learned': 0.73; 'automatic': 0.74; 'concept': 0.74; 'lose': 0.84; '01:34': 0.84; 'experienced,': 0.84; 'stunned': 0.84; 'xah': 0.84; 'subject:long': 0.93; 'afford': 0.95 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 16:29:10 -0500 From: Calvin Kim User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: are int, float, long, double, side-effects of computer engineering? References: <5aaded58-af09-41dc-9afd-56d7b7ced239@d7g2000pbl.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator1191.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - python.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - calvinkim.org X-BWhitelist: no X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: cpe-69-203-220-72.nyc.res.rr.com ([192.168.11.101]) [69.203.220.72]:35156 X-Source-Auth: reader+calvinkim.org X-Email-Count: 2 X-Source-Cap: Y2FsdmluO2NhbHZpbjtnYXRvcjExOTEuaG9zdGdhdG9yLmNvbQ== X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: python-list@python.org List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1331076700 news.xs4all.nl 6985 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:45602 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:21285 On 03/06/2012 01:34 AM, Xah Lee wrote: > while what you said is true, but the problem is that 99.99% of > programers do NOT know this. They do not know Mathematica. They've > never seen a language with such feature. The concept is alien. This is > what i'd like to point out and spread awareness. > I can see your point. But that's not simply true. In my case and many others, such issue was addressed during first week of introductory programming classes. I was naively thought "computer = precision" and I was stunned to find out the inaccuracy of computer calculations. But as you experienced, I also stumble upon some people (specially Java only programmers) who were not aware of it. > also, argument about raw speed and fine control vs automatic > management, rots with time. Happened with auto memory management, > managed code, compilers, auto type conversion, auto extension of > array, auto type system, dynamic/scripting languages, etc. Maybe it's because I'm not in scientific community, that I learned to live with such side-effects. Because 99.99% of computer users and programmers can afford to, and willing to lose such small inaccuracy billion times in exchange for some performance increase and convenience. Although NASA may not accept my application for their projects for Mars mission after this posting.