Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!rt.uk.eu.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'explicitly': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'permitted': 0.07; 'default.': 0.09; 'falls': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'developers,': 0.11; 'mostly': 0.14; 'sections': 0.14; '>2)': 0.16; 'bounds': 0.16; 'disregard': 0.16; 'message-id:@4ax.com': 0.16; 'ought': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'code,': 0.22; 'url:home': 0.24; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'rest': 0.29; 'wonder': 0.29; 'dec': 0.30; 'especially': 0.30; 'url:wiki': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'disable': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'url:wikipedia': 0.31; 'critical': 0.32; 'languages': 0.32; 'checking': 0.33; 'but': 0.35; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'received:76': 0.38; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'how': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'read': 0.60; 'believe': 0.68; 'touch': 0.74; '(while': 0.84; 'bliss': 0.84; 'silently': 0.84; '2013': 0.98 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Dennis Lee Bieber Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2013 18:58:27 -0500 Organization: IISS Elusive Unicorn References: <20131217165144.39bf9ba1cd4e4f27a96893ca@gmx.net> <52b0fb4f$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <52b15a69$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <52b328f7$0$6512$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <52b3a864$0$6599$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: adsl-76-249-18-76.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186 X-No-Archive: YES X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1387583918 news.xs4all.nl 2941 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:46703 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:62459 On 20 Dec 2013 02:16:05 GMT, Steven D'Aprano declaimed the following: > >2) Even for kernel developers, I believe that systems languages should be >safe by default. You ought to have to explicitly disable (say) bounds >checking in critical sections of code, rather than explicitly enable it. >Or worse, have to program your own bounds checking -- especially if the >compiler is permitted to silently disregard it if you make one tiny >mistake. > I wonder how BLISS falls into that... Have to read the rest of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLISS (while I had 22 years on VMS, it was mostly F77, a touch of F90, C, Pascal, and some DCL; but never used BLISS) -- Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/