Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'programmer': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'c++,': 0.07; 'claimed': 0.09; 'correct,': 0.09; 'feature,': 0.09; 'feature.': 0.09; 'function,': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'undefined': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python- list': 0.11; 'dotted': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'pointer,': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'looked': 0.18; 'wed,': 0.18; 'example': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'paul': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'function': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; 'dec': 0.30; 'forgot': 0.30; 'especially': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; "we're": 0.32; 'maybe': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'knowledge': 0.35; 'basic': 0.35; "can't": 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'c++': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'according': 0.40; 'blank': 0.60; "you've": 0.63; 'sample': 0.67; 'brain': 0.68; 'calls,': 0.84; "paul's": 0.84; 'right!': 0.84; 'either:': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92; 'gaps': 0.93; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=hJZNdigtH+kzWnsxvoms/11It+Nt+DTSNBudEbM1moU=; b=xTB19TOORKNOFb6m5TTJGN5GJ7Y5p7nSwvuvELPRdIS7MDwJ/w1mh1hk+vODfCOXcM 4rvjYd3QT2RiZOzQ6tYA9N7+Vm47GgAYwhF3Rp0sse+G3PhS3ofGiH65693m/zOnDY31 E5b/kxZuiZ6EyEw98sYoLyJxwajacIsb/zhyPnXKiYVylOD5qzyUxWRezU/L4HAE8mHz 6/QPWMIAio//FEslCQvoYxS7qOAXn/UtYdK2mU9Hehgd841hqLiOJjMSi0cp8bXOnuoC BUpJS9XisUFpd3+UN6jWRFt5MHG66wMiT6DdeBuFdxkgfj6ywqHtAyqbs0zj0jRS29od jL1Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.65.134 with SMTP id x6mr32717442pas.142.1387355576677; Wed, 18 Dec 2013 00:32:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52b15b62$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <20131212213602.806ef8fd2626ca6f34bc83d6@gmx.net> <20131216213225.2006b30246e3a08ee241a191@gmx.net> <20131217165144.39bf9ba1cd4e4f27a96893ca@gmx.net> <52b0fb4f$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <52b15b62$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2013 19:32:56 +1100 Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1387355585 news.xs4all.nl 2971 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:58799 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:62279 On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 7:22 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> Well, okay. In C you can't have Foo.foo(). > > Hah, well according to Paul Smith's example code you can. So either: > > > - it's possible to be an experienced C programmer and still have > fundamental gaps in your knowledge about basic concepts like dotted > function calls; > > - or Paul's sample code was not what he claimed it to be; > > - or maybe the whole thing is undefined and we're all right! C both does > and doesn't allow Foo.foo() function calls, *sometimes at the same time*. - or it's possible to be an experienced C and C++ programmer and have your mind just blank out about which things you can do in C and which were added in C++, especially when you've been up all night and are wired on energy drinks. Mea culpa. My brain looked at that and thought it was a member function, which is a C++ feature, and forgot that it could be a straight-up function pointer, which is a C feature. Paul's correct, I'm wrong. ChrisA