Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.redatomik.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.037 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.93; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'jan': 0.12; 'anyway': 0.14; 'changes': 0.15; 'deprecation': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'bit': 0.19; 'version.': 0.19; 'creating': 0.23; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; '"you': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'paul': 0.24; 'possibly': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; "doesn't": 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'went': 0.31; 'breaking': 0.31; 'delayed': 0.31; 'hacker': 0.31; 'quite': 0.32; 'running': 0.33; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'version': 0.36; 'done': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; "couldn't": 0.39; 'quote': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'changed': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'cost.': 0.60; 'problems.': 0.60; 'solve': 0.60; 'back': 0.62; 'making': 0.63; 'real': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'news': 0.67; 'anything.': 0.68; 'improvements': 0.68; 'applying': 0.72; 'gain': 0.79; 'potentially': 0.81; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; 'url:item': 0.84; 'have.': 0.93 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 04:53:51 -0400 References: <20150316025301.GA94576@cskk.homeip.net> <873855tts4.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-98-114-97-173.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0 In-Reply-To: <873855tts4.fsf@jester.gateway.sonic.net> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.19 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1426496056 news.xs4all.nl 2892 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:56692 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:87537 On 3/16/2015 1:07 AM, Paul Rubin wrote: > I saved a quote from Hacker News a while back (I don't know who the > author is): > > "You know why I'm not running python 3? > Because it doesn't solve a single problem I have. Quite possibly true. > It doesn't solve anyone's problems. It solves > imaginary problems, while creating real problems." A blatent, selfish lie. > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7802575 > > I think the person went a bit overboard, I call it more than a bit overboard. But anyway ... > but other than the Unicode revamp I don't know what Python 3 > improvements couldn't have been done > in Python 2 without breaking anything. Every change potentially breaks something. (How would you have changed 1/2 from 0 to .5 without breaking anything?) The issue is cost versus gain. We do maintenance bugfix releases because the gain for bugfixes, and the gain of applying them immediately, is *usually* considered greater than the cost. Some bugfixes are delayed to the 'next' version. Non-bugfix changes require deprecation for at least one version before making the change. -- Terry Jan Reedy