Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.024 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.95; '*S*': 0.00; 'beginner': 0.05; 'true,': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'intermediate': 0.07; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'url:faqs': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'url:catb': 0.16; 'url:hacker-howto': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; '[1]': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'dec': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'becoming': 0.31; 'os,': 0.31; 'yes.': 0.31; 'ago': 0.33; 'tool': 0.35; 'etc': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'url:org': 0.36; 'too': 0.37; 'does': 0.39; 'bad': 0.39; 'education': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'teach': 0.65; 'believe': 0.68; 'production': 0.68; 'url:pdf': 0.68; 'paper': 0.75; 'compilers,': 0.84; 'horrible': 0.84; 'rusi': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=rhXrqr2Jncplo4VTGjX3XjXfiZ2wWtU6ipfTY5oJ01U=; b=nkiPoDjDO1fFAlq0PoEqqnjT+G/c2ECcbRdtbX3JD0Uzst+Fa3a0nKurF8zObbbGwy irVHOJukJWvBFnEqvFFxeC+K6RuFKf40H9NX7zXOg5FogDjF1PLQAEsar1QGnwnKBktu ceHsCdBkn1OtD1BNn4UYBwsdpjlLnNZK0AFHS/dk8KkeI2ddRp5Fa0A91r0cWm/2hqgP 9varKSeGvH20cpHuuUJw+ZE3eciS1L0fSt8kY2VPMal0w/i4ml2W9oXaE8iSGGXcNew4 L4elHQndK+WMbNoEJRPQwfhyjggLxElhfiDG8Ly1ojYLV5vfa1ypwL/SiULysp+Z9aWj qFyg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.236.133 with SMTP id uu5mr23443920pbc.153.1387241099704; Mon, 16 Dec 2013 16:44:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20131212213602.806ef8fd2626ca6f34bc83d6@gmx.net> <20131216213225.2006b30246e3a08ee241a191@gmx.net> Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 11:44:59 +1100 Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1387241110 news.xs4all.nl 2833 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:41728 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:62122 On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 11:39 AM, rusi wrote: > I had a paper some years ago on why C is a horrible language *to teach with* > http://www.the-magus.in/Publications/chor.pdf > > I believe people did not get then (and still dont) that bad for > - beginner education (CS101) > - intermediate -- compilers, OS, DBMS etc > - professional software engineering > > are all almost completely unrelated Yes. In esr's essay on becoming a hacker[1] he says: """There is perhaps a more general point here. If a language does too much for you, it may be simultaneously a good tool for production and a bad one for learning.""" Definitely true, though I think it has exceptions. [1] http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html ChrisA