Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!news-transit.tcx.org.uk!rt.uk.eu.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'guido': 0.04; 'situation.': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'python': 0.08; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229.12': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'received:lo.gmane.org': 0.09; 'stating': 0.09; 'am,': 0.12; 'library': 0.13; 'both.': 0.16; 'realised': 0.16; 'question.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'ryan': 0.18; 'issue.': 0.19; "haven't": 0.20; 'dec': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'code': 0.25; 'ignore': 0.26; 'code.': 0.26; 'windows': 0.26; '27,': 0.29; 'idle': 0.29; 'install,': 0.30; 'installed': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'source': 0.31; "didn't": 0.31; 'pretty': 0.32; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.33; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.34; 'lie': 0.34; '(not': 0.35; 'project': 0.35; 'received:au': 0.36; 'think': 0.37; 'open': 0.38; 'communities': 0.38; 'received:org': 0.38; 'either': 0.39; 'johnson': 0.39; "it's": 0.40; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'making': 0.67; '05:11': 0.84; '11:50': 0.84; 'enrich': 0.84; 'received:110': 0.95 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Lie Ryan Subject: Re: Python education survey Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2011 08:13:03 +1100 References: <06423dd7-4fbb-4e7a-b529-e697ea862b05@f11g2000yql.googlegroups.com> <8bdab804-7fa7-4a2a-b8db-920c7c034752@32g2000yqp.googlegroups.com> <14358576-d102-4b96-aa90-3b63289be45b@h3g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> <76281802-e45b-4850-82be-06a51cde1b20@g41g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 110-175-240-90.static.tpgi.com.au User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111124 Thunderbird/8.0 In-Reply-To: <76281802-e45b-4850-82be-06a51cde1b20@g41g2000yqa.googlegroups.com> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1325020402 news.xs4all.nl 6924 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:45123 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:18053 On 12/28/2011 05:11 AM, Rick Johnson wrote: > On Dec 27, 11:50 am, Lie Ryan wrote: >> In case you haven't realised it, it is pretty >> much impossible for a large open source project to "die"; even if Guido >> decided to remove IDLE from the standard library > > I don't remember stating that Python would die if IDLE was removed > (not sure if you misunderstood me or you're just making a general > statement???). My belief is that the atrocious state of IDLE and > Tkinter's code bases are making us look bad as a community. And i can > go either way on the issue; remove them both, or enrich them both. > Either way we improve on the current situation. My point is that we > CANNOT just ignore the issue. The point is, I didn't think it's such a pressing issue. I haven't seen anyone in or outside Python communities making their conclusion about Python based on IDLE. In any case, removing IDLE without a much better replacement is pretty much out of the question. If people installed Python in vanilla Windows install, they would only have Notepad to edit their code.