Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!dedibox.gegeweb.org!gegeweb.eu!nntpfeed.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'that?': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'think,': 0.07; 'bytes.': 0.09; 'compact': 0.09; 'migration': 0.09; 'solution,': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'stored': 0.12; 'windows': 0.15; '"*"': 0.16; 'behaviour.': 0.16; 'character.': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'pairs,': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'surrogate': 0.16; 'usage,': 0.16; 'win7': 0.16; 'years)': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'fit': 0.20; 'memory': 0.22; '(in': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'days,': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'fine': 0.24; "haven't": 0.24; 'looks': 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; '15,': 0.26; '----------': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'correct': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'dec': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'easier': 0.31; '>>>>': 0.31; 'explained': 0.31; 'probably': 0.32; 'maybe': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'shows': 0.36; 'behind': 0.37; 'experience,': 0.37; 'system,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'how': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'till': 0.61; 'back': 0.62; 'high': 0.63; 'term': 0.63; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'world': 0.66; 'actually,': 0.84; 'borrow': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.92; 'lot,': 0.93; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=vD+VxftqP4miS4fDuxiq366/LD/YrdTJv2N90VVDAyk=; b=SQUnvVp7reSikrxjk+8bBvnQ23VKAfmgUVjAL5j21DBCjglM/QqV1ZMoR35B/oxDf+ GTU448oX5MDCKjf/INiuJLIC4PXXZAA5MkPrJI7DQyM/nq4UWuOvtzZIclV99VYjUTRW 4F3LkB53qpoNU/XEeThZfgYL0KuxyhztlVqX1MCZ1bn5+Mgw0Y2pbyfpw0CRPegzF2Ds TWEQ8Zv8Pn7TZlvehsavBV9ormpZgBQvg2HUuyXYk2pLjOSsMU5IDn8a6KwSjSkVMLIO WV35BF0/9iJWC52gKidFZVrE35FhosYHUKcgAbx4oahgocnLRzbi2Ev4GFfs0R7bxPnH W81A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.66.102.39 with SMTP id fl7mr9506009pab.43.1387030500636; Sat, 14 Dec 2013 06:15:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201312090824.25211.gheskett@wdtv.com> <52A78F6F.3060507@stoneleaf.us> <5b62c6f8-fb92-48ef-a59a-6025b9b39994@googlegroups.com> Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2013 01:15:00 +1100 Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1387030870 news.xs4all.nl 2846 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:57247 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:61898 On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 1:03 AM, wrote: > D:\>chcp 65001 > Page de codes active : 65001 > D:\>echo "*" > "*" > D:\> > > >>>> locale.getdefaultlocale() > ('fr_CH', 'cp1252') > > ---------- > > In my understanding and experience, in the MS world > (desktop, intel), today: > Unicode == utf-16-le You still haven't explained how Win7 is different from every other Windows going back as far as NT. Back in the NT days, Windows had "Unicode" (really UCS-2 - it predated Unicode 2.0, so that was correct for a few years) while OS/2 had DBCS. Hindsight shows that OS/2 did kinda get left behind there :) Though maybe it would be easier to force migration from DBCS to true Unicode than from UTF-16 or UCS-2 where it looks fine till you hit an astral character. Now how is Win7 different from NT? And where does the current "oldstable" Windows (if I may borrow a term from Debian), XP, fit into that? > If you think, utf-16, because of surrogate pairs, is > not a proper solution, the single choice is utf-32. > > You may not be aware, you are already using utf-32 > probably much more than you think, (in a correct way). Yeah. I use UTF-32 a lot, often stored in ways that elide unnecessary 00 bytes. It's a pretty good system, actually, giving high performance, compact memory usage, and correct behaviour. Still don't know what this has to do with Win7. ChrisA