Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.007 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'think,': 0.05; 'variable,': 0.07; 'implies': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'pointer': 0.18; 'programmer': 0.18; 'preferred': 0.20; 'assign': 0.22; 'lawrence': 0.22; 'name;': 0.22; 'object.': 0.22; "i've": 0.25; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; "doesn't": 0.26; 'header:X -Complaints-To:1': 0.26; 'object,': 0.27; 'correct': 0.28; 'objects': 0.29; 'themselves': 0.29; 'another': 0.32; 'received:comcast.net': 0.33; 'add': 0.34; 'knowledge': 0.35; "isn't": 0.35; 'should': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'associated': 0.38; 'skip:v 20': 0.38; 'names': 0.38; 'stuff': 0.38; 'mean': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'mark': 0.40; 'still': 0.40; 'your': 0.60; 'matter': 0.63; 'more': 0.63; 'different': 0.63; 'to,': 0.63; 'places': 0.64; 'everybody': 0.67; 'notes,': 0.84 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Random832 Subject: Re: Python handles globals badly. Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 01:35:12 -0400 References: <14afe27e-0bd5-410f-8e64-0f31d496ebf2@googlegroups.com> <55F36B4C.9020007@gmail.com> <1442016698.95299.381478313.2487CA0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c-68-39-146-59.hsd1.in.comcast.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (darwin) Cancel-Lock: sha1:kuHTtiGFKE1dr/KAhv98CGm+hwA= X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1442036122 news.xs4all.nl 23841 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:43972 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96405 Mark Lawrence writes: > Let's put it another way, in the 15 years I've been using Python I do > not recall any experienced Python programmer using "pointer", so what > makes you think, in 2015, that you are correct and everybody else is > wrong? I still say that everything in Python is an object, and should > add that it has one or more things, "names", that are associated with > it. Hence my preferred analogy about the sticky note. So is player3[3] also a name, a sticky note? What if we copy player3 to another name; does it get two sticky notes, player3[3] and foo[3]? Your "sticky note" analogy doesn't unify variables/names/whatever you want to call them with other places that you can assign stuff to, and it implies that the objects themselves have knowledge of their "names", and that names are global (if I have two functions each with a result variable, does that mean there are two different result sticky notes?) It doesn't matter that a pointer isn't what it's *called*, it's what it *is*. And it's not an object, because you can copy it to more than one place with only one object.