Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.05; 'think,': 0.05; 'builtin': 0.07; 'implemented.': 0.09; 'pointers': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'underlying': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; '*only*': 0.16; 'ironpython': 0.16; 'lambda': 0.16; 'pointers,': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'runtimes': 0.16; 'uses,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'pointer': 0.18; 'programmer': 0.18; 'language': 0.19; 'preferred': 0.20; 'java': 0.22; 'lawrence': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; "i've": 0.25; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints- To:1': 0.26; 'object,': 0.27; 'correct': 0.28; 'actual': 0.28; 'about.': 0.29; 'another': 0.32; 'language.': 0.32; "i'll": 0.33; 'add': 0.34; 'but': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'associated': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'mark': 0.40; 'still': 0.40; 'called': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'charset:windows-1252': 0.62; 'more': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'everybody': 0.67; 'talking': 0.67; 'pythonistas,': 0.84 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Mark Lawrence Subject: Re: Python handles globals badly. Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 06:25:37 +0100 References: <14afe27e-0bd5-410f-8e64-0f31d496ebf2@googlegroups.com> <55F36B4C.9020007@gmail.com> <1442016698.95299.381478313.2487CA0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.66.69 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1442035551 news.xs4all.nl 23767 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38658 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96404 On 12/09/2015 06:07, Random832 wrote: > Mark Lawrence writes: >> How do I access these pointers? Is there a builtin called pointer() >> that's analogous to id()? > > You access them *all the time*. They are the *only* thing you access. > > But if you want... pointer = lambda x: return x > >> I'll ask again, where do pointers come into >> the Jython and IronPython models? How do I access their pointers, the >> same builtin? The fact that the underlying implementation language >> has some terminology that it uses, has no bearing on the actual >> language being implemented. > > I am not using "pointer" as language-specific terminology, I am using it > as *the* name of the concept we are talking about. The Java and .NET > runtimes *don't* use that terminology, but they still *actually* have > pointers, in the same way that Python does. > Let's put it another way, in the 15 years I've been using Python I do not recall any experienced Python programmer using "pointer", so what makes you think, in 2015, that you are correct and everybody else is wrong? I still say that everything in Python is an object, and should add that it has one or more things, "names", that are associated with it. Hence my preferred analogy about the sticky note. -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence