Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.003 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; '*not*': 0.07; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'jan': 0.12; 'windows': 0.15; '(now': 0.16; 'chris,': 0.16; 'excellent,': 0.16; 'internally': 0.16; 'presume': 0.16; 'rarely': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'usable': 0.16; 'well-known': 0.16; 'sat,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'not,': 0.20; 'coding': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'certainly': 0.24; 'finally,': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'words': 0.29; 'dec': 0.30; 'statement': 0.30; '(which': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'yourself.': 0.31; 'another': 0.32; 'guess': 0.33; '14,': 0.36; 'scheme': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'clear': 0.37; 'system,': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'enough': 0.39; 'system.': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'even': 0.60; 'read': 0.60; 'full': 0.61; 'received:173': 0.61; 'complete': 0.62; 'more': 0.64; 'covers': 0.68; 'fact,': 0.69; 'citation': 0.84; 'comment.': 0.84; 'hardly': 0.84; 'received:fios.verizon.net': 0.84; '2013': 0.98 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Terry Reedy Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 18:30:38 -0500 References: <201312090824.25211.gheskett@wdtv.com> <52A78F6F.3060507@stoneleaf.us> <5b62c6f8-fb92-48ef-a59a-6025b9b39994@googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: pool-173-75-254-207.phlapa.fios.verizon.net User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1386977455 news.xs4all.nl 2858 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:39612 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:61869 On 12/13/2013 11:27 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Sat, Dec 14, 2013 at 3:15 AM, wrote: >> One should recognize, with win7, MS, finally, produce >> a full unicode system. Strangely, among all the "bashing" >> one can read about that system, this is rarely mentioned. >> (With an excellent unicode coding scheme!) > > [citation needed] Chris, I hardly think Jim's last statement (which I presume is your target) is egregious enough to start another junk subthread of 9 (now 10) posts. Certainly '[citation needed]' is a pretty senseless comment. 'Citation' to what, for what? It is well-known that Windows uses 2-byte words for unicode coding. If you want a citation for that fact, find it yourself. What is not clear to me is whether Windows internally uses UCS-2, which only codes BMP chars, and which would *not* be excellent, or UTF-16, which covers all chars by using surrogates. I will guess the latter. More to the point, even if MS uses a complete coding scheme internally (UFT-16), it does not, as far as I know, make it fully available and usable to *me*, as I showed in my response about code page 65001. -- Terry Jan Reedy