Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!news.tele.dk!feed118.news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <python-python-list@m.gmane.org>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.02; 'win32': 0.03; '(at': 0.04; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'versions.': 0.07; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'mixed': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'works.': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'language.': 0.14; 'windows': 0.15; '"*"': 0.16; "'''": 0.16; 'alphabet': 0.16; 'expected,': 0.16; 'experiment.': 0.16; 'failure.': 0.16; 'non-ascii': 0.16; 'quit.': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'stages': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'throw': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'bit': 0.19; 'trying': 0.19; 'later': 0.20; 'seems': 0.21; 'command': 0.22; 'machine': 0.22; '>>>': 0.22; 'input': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'test.': 0.24; '15,': 0.26; 'least': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints- To:1': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'tried': 0.27; 'am,': 0.29; 'specified': 0.30; 'skip:( 20': 0.30; 'work.': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; "skip:' 10": 0.31; 'becoming': 0.31; 'os,': 0.31; "we're": 0.32; 'except': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'himself': 0.36; 'idle': 0.36; 'machine.': 0.36; 'much.': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'too': 0.37; 'window': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'major': 0.40; 'french': 0.61; 'national': 0.62; 'email addr:gmail.com': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'believe': 0.68; 'prompt': 0.68; 'usa': 0.69; '8bit%:84': 0.69; 'to,': 0.72; 'cut': 0.74; 'gotten': 0.74; 'behavior': 0.77; 'boxer': 0.84; 'fails,': 0.84; 'regard.': 0.84; 'trainer': 0.84; '2013,': 0.91; 'device.': 0.93; 'fight': 0.97; '2013': 0.98
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: python-list@python.org
From: Mark Lawrence <breamoreboy@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:10:01 +0000
References: <CAHVvXxS23g8dxO23pPTmXLo0z=QzJY_CjwMUtJcvAVfRhZa8bA@mail.gmail.com> <201312090824.25211.gheskett@wdtv.com> <52A78F6F.3060507@stoneleaf.us> <CABicbJKoN9fV48yskd5wqE79vsb5=nPGfwgOTCO+fCFMG7g8qw@mail.gmail.com> <mailman.3872.1386751441.18130.python-list@python.org> <d0aef6f2-9091-4f27-b378-8e24257d3983@googlegroups.com> <mailman.3882.1386758747.18130.python-list@python.org> <f62baa3e-d286-4f7b-b6db-71cafb0523d3@googlegroups.com> <mailman.4005.1386870936.18130.python-list@python.org> <5b62c6f8-fb92-48ef-a59a-6025b9b39994@googlegroups.com> <l8g2tk$3os$1@ger.gmane.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: host-78-147-17-58.as13285.net
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.2.0
In-Reply-To: <l8g2tk$3os$1@ger.gmane.org>
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.4097.1386976228.18130.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 57
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1386976228 news.xs4all.nl 2873 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:35058
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:61868

On 13/12/2013 22:49, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 12/13/2013 11:15 AM, wxjmfauth@gmail.com wrote:
>> Le jeudi 12 décembre 2013 18:55:15 UTC+1, Terry Reedy a écrit :
>
>>> If you mean cp65xxx (I forget exact numbers), MS Command Prompt fails,
>>> not Python. One should not use any other code page, but only other code
>>> pages work.
>
>> Please, do not exaggerate too much.
>
> I try not to, so in case I mis-remembered, I tried your experiment.
>
>  >> echo "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*"
>  > works.
>
> I cut the mixed alphabet input line and pasted into a *fresh* Command
> Prompt window on my USA Win 7 machine with all updates.
>
> C:\Users\Terry>echo "?‚????*"
> "?‚????*"
>
> About what I expected, except for é becoming ,. Now the test. Change the
> code page and re-paste.
> '''
> C:\Users\Terry>chcp 65001
> Active code page: 65001
>
> C:\Users\Terry>echo "*"
> The system cannot write to the specified device.
> '''
> This a major fail as all non-ascii chars are deleted when pasted (at
> least visibly) and the echo does not echo. There is no Python involved
> in this failure.
>
> I am willing to believe that you might have gotten different behavior on
> your French Win 7 machine. Windows is not an international OS, but
> rather a collection of ghettoized national versions.
>
> As I said before, Idle does work in this regard.
>
> Python 3.4.0a4 (v3.4.0a4:e245b0d7209b, Oct 20 2013, 19:57:58) [MSC
> v.1600 64 bit (AMD64)] on win32
>  >>> "ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*"
> 'ሴé€㑖Ѓ⌴*'
>

Seems like we're now in the later stages of the 15, three minute rounds. 
  The trainer won't throw in the towel, the referee won't stop the fight 
and the boxer himself won't quit.  Is jmf actually trying to get himself 
killed?

-- 
My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask 
what you can do for our language.

Mark Lawrence