Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.033 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.93; '*S*': 0.00; '16,': 0.03; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'source.': 0.07; 'fixed,': 0.09; 'reports.': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'bug': 0.12; '"some': 0.16; '>on': 0.16; '>that': 0.16; 'devs': 0.16; 'enough.': 0.16; 'from:addr:cs': 0.16; 'from:addr:zip.com.au': 0.16; 'from:name:cameron simpson': 0.16; 'guilty': 0.16; 'message- id:@cskk.homeip.net': 0.16; 'sadly': 0.16; 'simpson': 0.16; 'unfair': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'library': 0.18; 'issue.': 0.22; 'minutes.': 0.22; 'to:name:python-list@python.org': 0.22; 'header :User-Agent:1': 0.23; "aren't": 0.24; "shouldn't": 0.24; 'stephen': 0.24; 'url:status': 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'cheers,': 0.24; 'developers': 0.25; 'mention': 0.26; 'speakers': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'fixed': 0.29; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'that.': 0.31; 'becoming': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'file': 0.32; 'probably': 0.32; 'open': 0.33; 'bugs': 0.33; 'there,': 0.34; 'core': 0.34; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; "can't": 0.35; 'problem.': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'described': 0.36; 'much.': 0.36; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'possible': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'little': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'quote': 0.39; 'reported': 0.39; 'supporting': 0.39; 'url:2012': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'even': 0.60; 'easy': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'ago.': 0.61; 'matter': 0.61; 'range': 0.61; 'john': 0.61; 'content-disposition:inline': 0.62; 'offering': 0.63; 'decided': 0.64; 'talking': 0.65; 'it!': 0.67; 'mar': 0.68; 'therefore': 0.72; 'lack': 0.78; '2015': 0.84; 'everything.': 0.84; 'fry': 0.84; 'implications': 0.84; 'presumably': 0.84; 'received:192.168.15': 0.84; 'upstream': 0.84; 'url:03': 0.84; 'usage.': 0.84; 'discovering': 0.91 Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 13:53:01 +1100 From: Cameron Simpson To: "python-list@python.org" Subject: Re: Python 2 to 3 conversion - embrace the pain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.23 (2014-03-12) References: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.19 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 40 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1426474392 news.xs4all.nl 2940 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:51924 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:87502 On 16Mar2015 11:38, Chris Angelico wrote: >On Mon, Mar 16, 2015 at 11:25 AM, Steven D'Aprano > wrote: >> "Some of the bugs I listed are so easy to hit that I suspect those >> packages aren't used much. Those bugs should have been found years >> ago. Fixed, even. I shouldn't be discovering them in 2015." >> >> Clearly a mere nine years is NOT long enough. Which is probably why the >> Python core developers are supporting Python 2 until 2020. Library authors >> will presumably be offering Python 2 compatibility for even longer. > >I would say that time clearly isn't the issue. Nine years IS enough... >if it's a matter of time. But since the bugs are still there, it means >that the problem is a lack of usage. Solution: Use it! Do the port to >Python 3, and file those upstream bug reports. One should mention that John did all of that. Often bugs _are_ encoutered, but not characterised and reported upstream. One is guilty of this oneself. One can't blame the package devs for everything. To quote Graham Dumpleton: For years have seen people make vague grumbles about something not working with mod_wsgi. Not one ever reported bug or described problem. [...] Decided to do a sweep of a range of possible things they may have been talking about, and fixed issue in under 15 minutes. [...] Sadly becoming the norm. People will just whinge and complain but never actually report issues in Open Source. https://twitter.com/grahamdumpleton/status/569052889387130880 Cheers, Cameron Simpson Swiftkey, [...] teaches one the lamentable lesson that most English speakers start most sentences, phrases and sub-clauses with 'I'. One does not use the word often oneself and it therefore strikes one as a little unfair that one's texts and emails so often end up littered with implications of egocentricity. - Stephen Fry http://www.stephenfry.com/2012/04/03/four-and-half-years-on/9/