Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed8.news.xs4all.nl!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'cpython': 0.05; 'from:addr:yahoo.co.uk': 0.05; 'bug.': 0.07; 'builtin': 0.07; 'important,': 0.07; 'here?': 0.09; 'implemented.': 0.09; 'pointers': 0.09; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'underlying': 0.09; 'worse': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'missed': 0.15; 'variables': 0.15; 'ironpython': 0.16; 'pointers,': 0.16; 'pointers.': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'uses,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'pointer': 0.18; 'language': 0.19; 'lawrence': 0.22; 'seems': 0.23; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.26; 'points': 0.27; 'actual': 0.28; 'feature,': 0.29; 'objects': 0.29; 'connection': 0.30; 'knows': 0.32; 'language.': 0.32; "i'll": 0.33; 'list': 0.34; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'received:org': 0.37; 'wrong': 0.38; 'rather': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'where': 0.40; 'mark': 0.40; 'called': 0.40; 'some': 0.40; 'charset:windows-1252': 0.62; 'our': 0.64; 'about?': 0.84; 'pythonistas,': 0.84 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Mark Lawrence Subject: Re: Python handles globals badly. Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 05:45:24 +0100 References: <14afe27e-0bd5-410f-8e64-0f31d496ebf2@googlegroups.com> <55F36B4C.9020007@gmail.com> <1442016698.95299.381478313.2487CA0E@webmail.messagingengine.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.66.69 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.2.0 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1442033138 news.xs4all.nl 23796 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:50049 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96398 On 12/09/2015 05:34, Random832 wrote: > Mark Lawrence writes: >> I think pointer is even worse because of its connection with C and >> hence cPython. What is wrong with object if that is the only thing >> Python knows about? > > Because the object is the *thing the arrow points at*. You don't have > two objects when store the same object in two variables (names, list > slots, whatever), but you do have two pointers. > > And they *are* pointers in cPython - so that "connection" is a feature, > not a bug. > How do I access these pointers? Is there a builtin called pointer() that's analogous to id()? I'll ask again, where do pointers come into the Jython and IronPython models? How do I access their pointers, the same builtin? The fact that the underlying implementation language has some terminology that it uses, has no bearing on the actual language being implemented. This seems to me rather important, or have I missed something here? -- My fellow Pythonistas, ask not what our language can do for you, ask what you can do for our language. Mark Lawrence