Path: csiph.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Chris Angelico Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Guido sees the light: PEP 8 updated Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2016 18:17:33 +1000 Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com> <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com> <87wpnuqat0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de MnEIpxo0lQ28iPJKHa+hqgTo5GvSFoFxiYhEYcS61yMA== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'diff': 0.05; 'json': 0.05; '(b)': 0.07; 'subject:PEP': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; '"but': 0.09; 'proprietary.': 0.09; 'underlying': 0.09; 'itself.': 0.11; 'files.': 0.13; '2016': 0.16; 'binary,': 0.16; 'cookie,': 0.16; 'descending': 0.16; 'encodings': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'set,': 0.16; 'sorts': 0.16; 'tagged': 0.16; 'useless': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'not,': 0.22; '(a)': 0.22; 'code,': 0.23; 'code.': 0.23; 'consistent': 0.23; 'plain': 0.24; 'header :In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'script': 0.25; "i've": 0.25; "doesn't": 0.26; 'coding': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'fine': 0.28; "people's": 0.29; "they'll": 0.29; '(c)': 0.29; 'array': 0.29; 'code': 0.30; "i'd": 0.31; 'problem': 0.33; 'source': 0.33; 'suddenly': 0.33; 'open': 0.33; 'structure': 0.34; 'tue,': 0.34; 'file': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'text': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'too': 0.36; 'received:209.85': 0.36; '(and': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'say': 0.37; 'received:209.85.213': 0.37; 'no,': 0.38; 'received:209': 0.38; 'files': 0.38; 'subject:the': 0.39; 'your': 0.60; 'back': 0.62; 'matter': 0.63; 'information': 0.63; 'you.': 0.64; 'capable': 0.65; 'soon': 0.65; 'believe': 0.66; 'future.': 0.67; 'advantages': 0.72; 'yourself': 0.73; 'bite': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'obs': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=qac7IvekJ/ny3rmpCxFsaepPfwc8jW872BetTpHIqXM=; b=xk/huTCSaSufZgcBNsa5LY+HFaDf9j8FtBUGjsFVNmSuuWwupCztTYuRmqw1jUDW9k 9UFf8axZCnmm953BM/MmzJJ2EllH8bOvwXgC558vRmFxrb6utR6SviVKxSbfqFtMLp2b eCJM/3So9HdNp/xBmbtqNIcIdYZqwPkRLDInHkxRS0sKWTz4q0zQORUgwJwI3ueHO7nk zwNVrcGMzfF1AcxxPgqOg2zw7VrY/jkYX4JASf8s32zZ74HmFwYxh9uZLTCLawLizQO9 kHr3lbsrOc5HAi7cbqUBq+2L1auh6Eez8+ml/qk7Y1uV7cA0BUDQJ/DqtNQyoi+bAQnm P36g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:cc; bh=qac7IvekJ/ny3rmpCxFsaepPfwc8jW872BetTpHIqXM=; b=hl9fgP/otctikJ0hlUhPlTgWpVE3IwZU8SUqIj9GAO209pxPZFgFIUDVbh1Iqd+AkC BciROWMpHTEv/oEfS467DOV+MzdcklH8UoQEpFY4r/y37kt0oFa0s+4nahArOIO55ug6 UkMNmRx194bv0uApkJDrOLdLRbgsshMbDknlPpwFYTIdIb8KQzXaW3VBlnPAJWhaUnWU MQQX82nFjty3JNa2yDFI4KbRak0qocaqScO8msyZ1ND6cqV6O9juxmBQeOuNNALTg1QJ HQFCZ38HIaHwR5UQ/I60khFYDEY1gvums4tJ0kOHtxJEqrdxU+/nKpXrgBSo+V8QrsK1 rZvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FW4wlUA9cPcpViaUX00iTL/6mQ2Uz+L38HD9mSGqMvoLR9pPRlOYhUl/29RNI0nc0nqNUEyaU9dmmeWjg== X-Received: by 10.50.221.169 with SMTP id qf9mr2296515igc.13.1461053853571; Tue, 19 Apr 2016 01:17:33 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87wpnuqat0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Mailman-Original-Message-ID: X-Mailman-Original-References: <5711c1b3$0$1596$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <87shym6kpo.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <87h9f26ioa.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <1460809922.1918014.580580553.0AE05EE4@webmail.messagingengine.com> <878u0d7az5.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> <93639142-6b82-4b8a-8bd0-7f4593e1f692@googlegroups.com> <87wpnuqat0.fsf@elektro.pacujo.net> Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:107303 On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Now, descending back on earth, I don't believe the advantages of rich > source code will outweigh those of plain text in the foreseeable future. No, they will not, because they'll make your code proprietary. Suddenly *nothing* else will viably work with your code. (And before you say "but diff tools are fine with XML/JSON/YAML/whatever", it's not that simple; as soon as the underlying structure is capable of representing information that doesn't matter to your source code, you open yourself up to diff noise. I've had this exact problem with git-managing my OBS configs, which are JSON files; there's one particular array that's effectively a set, and the file keeps reordering itself. I had to write a pre-commit script that sorts them into a consistent order, else I'd have had useless diffs.) Of course, there's no such thing as "plain text". Encodings will always bite you. But if you can depend on all files being (a) binary, (b) UTF-8, or (c) tagged with a coding cookie, it's not too hard to work with other people's files. ChrisA