Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.fsmpi.rwth-aachen.de!newsfeed.kamp.net!newsfeed.kamp.net!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!194.109.133.86.MISMATCH!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'encoding': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'string': 0.09; 'ascii': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'windows,': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'windows': 0.15; 'ascii,': 0.16; 'encodings': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'meanwhile': 0.16; 'repr': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'bit': 0.19; "python's": 0.19; 'replacing': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'shown': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'dec': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; '13,': 0.31; '>>>>': 0.31; 'fri,': 0.33; 'convert': 0.35; 'no,': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'displays': 0.38; 'nov': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; '12,': 0.39; 'back': 0.62; "you've": 0.63; 'box,': 0.64; 'default': 0.69; 'secret': 0.74; 'proves': 0.84; '2013,': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4XU1t/0668QHR6ih0Tb27LrDthghOQbL3HJfLB+w+IQ=; b=e5LyBDmUGJROhTTOsYXoK3JdHRctfjatvoXac8XoGnZRmOuWAnGnp9Pt/RJyKDctHU mo10K1bbNn35Jr6l5DvFEK3cJDwZVnWR+bRuk707rPvuFICx3wCI9Y4z8SCF3UH/3W/i PXby8/lcBKgOSz5Lh0bmPUCFUgwc1Qja8/gSxb/AVdPf5pOXyCreNh1CjILGU3u6JAJ0 xkJ0BAs318Ze+kjjzFHXPkYoIMf+3l7Wb8eoI4bMCbo/3Q/jDYokoDSrdHJBMHuTyvGm mveYM84vdd3keTXhOwRvpqpCEdRuVMxfrzD0S9XZAh1KhWSzfcXo4Jjs4A9m6hOfrFho Xn3Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.236.133 with SMTP id uu5mr12756036pbc.153.1386859661088; Thu, 12 Dec 2013 06:47:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201312090824.25211.gheskett@wdtv.com> <52A78F6F.3060507@stoneleaf.us> Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 01:47:40 +1100 Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1386859664 news.xs4all.nl 2892 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:39540 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:61721 On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 1:34 AM, wrote: > Le jeudi 12 d=C3=A9cembre 2013 11:28:35 UTC+1, Chris Angelico a =C3=A9cri= t : >> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 8:17 PM, wrote: >> >> > Windows, Py2.(7), ascii. It is not a secret Python uses >> > ascii for the representation. >> >> Actually no, it doesn't. > >>>> sys.version > '2.7.6 (default, Nov 10 2013, 19:24:18) [MSC v.1500 32 bit (Intel)]' >>>> sys.stdout.encoding > 'cp1252' What has this to do with ASCII or with Python's internal representation? All you've proven is that you can convert the repr of a string back into a byte-string, by replacing "\\xa9" with "\xa9", and then shown that you can successfully render that as CP-1252 and it displays as a copyright symbol. Meanwhile when I try the same thing on my Windows box, the default encoding is cp437, so it throws. Proves nothing about ASCII, as neither of those encodings is ASCII, and A9 does not decode as ASCII. ChrisA