Path: csiph.com!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder3.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.hal-mli.net!feeder1.hal-mli.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'programmer': 0.03; 'languages,': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'familiarity': 0.07; 'lawrence': 0.09; 'rewrite': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'weekend,': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; 'language,': 0.12; 'language.': 0.14; 'changes': 0.15; '"python': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'morning,': 0.16; 'semantics': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'think.': 0.16; 'two.': 0.16; 'wait.': 0.16; 'language': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'possible,': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'least': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'chris': 0.29; '[1]': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'dec': 0.30; 'strongly': 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'went': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'getting': 0.31; 'url:wiki': 0.31; 'moderate': 0.31; 'styles': 0.31; 'url:wikipedia': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'languages': 0.32; "i'd": 0.34; 'knows': 0.35; 'monday': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'next': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'list': 0.37; 'level': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'weekend': 0.38; '12,': 0.39; 'morning': 0.39; 'read': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; "you've": 0.63; 'pick': 0.64; 'week,': 0.64; 'more': 0.64; 'different': 0.65; 'believe': 0.68; 'power': 0.76; 'diary': 0.84; 'julia': 0.84; 'pike': 0.84; 'sixth': 0.84; 'dozen': 0.91; 'to:none': 0.92; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=M+e0ZR6/xPM1xiE2apyqo1omvbmzjrBPsOwxnrQo7vU=; b=pqHfIG6UuCleg6ptWlaqOMuDtrzVl/Bg6j/AImu9H1yIWZqp6QCQa916c7PmOkVPsH rsw7BgVI61GyryVbFlvfcxaWKXr6sdZz4V1Mtz8cc/shttFwO8phPjqd57z6sxFCbWSP oo0HAPuEYA7DBNL6eZ6gg1eZsyTMeAmFalEubhHzIPoy/4Owmln+yqDsdj4VZUmZ+MX+ Xh2zLgzArQlb/tvHGmRAfc7ysokrT2ZtbSOA9hyvFW1CsYXCygWwa32ZV66v7z2KtVLH IvW/gGZwp7jbGYUHzTRbs2XXBN59pH3xJtxO/X76OvfkbMeDWLui82j4eStJgVz4+SID 8ciQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.68.111.33 with SMTP id if1mr2750610pbb.31.1386779157538; Wed, 11 Dec 2013 08:25:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <201312090824.25211.gheskett@wdtv.com> <52A78F6F.3060507@stoneleaf.us> <05fc5a48-576d-4eb9-a714-96df39f0ef1f@googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 03:25:57 +1100 Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1386779167 news.xs4all.nl 2967 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:33772 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:61597 On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 3:18 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 11/12/2013 16:04, Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> I strongly believe that a career >> programmer should learn as many languages and styles as possible, but >> most of them can wait. > > > I chuckle every time I read this one. Five years per language, ten > languages, that's 50 years I think. Or do I rewrite my diary for next week, > so I learn Smalltalk Monday morning, Ruby Monday afternoon, Julia Tuesday > morning ... Well, I went exploring the Wikipedia list of languages [1] one day, and found I had at least broad familiarity with about one in five. I'd like to get that up to one in four, if only because four's a power of two. More seriously: Once you've learned five of very different styles, it won't take you five years to learn a sixth language. I picked up Pike in about a weekend by realizing that it was "Python semantics meets C syntax", and then went on to spend the next few years getting to know its own idioms. I'd say anyone who knows a dozen languages should be able to pick up any non-esoteric language in a weekend, at least to a level of broad familiarity of being able to read and comprehend code and make moderate changes to it. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_programming_languages ChrisA