Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <python-python-list@m.gmane.org>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.034
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.94; '*S*': 0.01; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; 'benjamin': 0.16; 'hammers,': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; '>>>': 0.22; 'saying': 0.22; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; "shouldn't": 0.24; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:X-Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'dec': 0.30; 'monday,': 0.33; 'programmers': 0.33; 'december': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'high': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'teaching': 0.64; 'school': 0.64; 'bang': 0.84; 'oscar': 0.84; 'pain': 0.84; 'that!)': 0.84; 'lucky': 0.93; '2013': 0.98
X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/
To: python-list@python.org
From: Neil Cerutti <neilc@norwich.edu>
Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 15:46:28 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Norwich University
References: <mailman.3772.1386592239.18130.python-list@python.org> <889721b4-a980-4205-9b1d-a1bedadd7eb3@googlegroups.com> <bgnmurFc5bU1@mid.individual.net> <d7gfa9pkakj8d93nqun5gv1gj7quh1j3gu@4ax.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: jackman.norwich.edu
User-Agent: slrn/0.9.9p1/mm/ao (Win32)
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.3905.1386776818.18130.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 30
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1386776818 news.xs4all.nl 2969 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:33166
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:61587

On 2013-12-11, Dennis Lee Bieber <wlfraed@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 18:25:48 +1300, Gregory Ewing
><greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> declaimed the following:
>>> On Monday, December 9, 2013 5:53:41 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote:
>>>>5) Learning to program "should be painful" and we should
>>>>expect the students to complain about it (someone actually
>>>>said that!) but the pain makes them better programmers in the
>>>>end.
>>
>>That's like saying that when teaching woodwork we shouldn't let
>>people use hammers, we should make them use rocks to bang nails
>>in, because it will make them better carpenters in the long
>>run.
>
> 	NAILS????
>
> 	Nails were verboten in my high school wood working class... 
>
> 	We used dowels and glue; chisels to carve dove-tails; etc.

...

You lucky BASTARD!

We had to build bookcases out of banana leaves held together with
our own spittle.

-- 
Neil Cerutti