Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder2.enfer-du-nord.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.097 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.81; '*S*': 0.00; 'subsequent': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.06; '"class"': 0.09; 'stating': 0.09; 'subject: [': 0.09; 'thread': 0.14; '"def"': 0.16; '"is': 0.16; 'differs': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'incorrect': 0.16; 'merely': 0.16; 'mine.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'wed,': 0.18; 'bit': 0.19; 'thu,': 0.19; 'example': 0.22; '"you': 0.24; 'posts': 0.26; 'post': 0.26; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'points': 0.29; 'words': 0.29; 'statement': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'posting': 0.31; '-0700,': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'lies': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'know.': 0.32; 'weeks': 0.32; 'sense': 0.34; "i'd": 0.34; 'problem': 0.35; 'received:209.85': 0.35; 'hundreds': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'done': 0.36; 'doing': 0.36; 'useful': 0.36; 'too': 0.37; 'list': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'subject:]': 0.38; 'needed': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'recent': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'bad': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'even': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'ago,': 0.61; 'forum': 0.61; 'skip:n 10': 0.64; 'telling': 0.64; 'chance': 0.65; 'taking': 0.65; 'finally': 0.65; 'mar': 0.68; 'readers': 0.68; 'reads': 0.68; 'guts': 0.84; 'honesty,': 0.84; "it'd": 0.84; 'mistaken': 0.84; 'researching': 0.84; 'subject:long': 0.84; 'dozen': 0.91; 'rusi': 0.91; 'archive.': 0.93; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=P61hAuY65CeYco9Ouw5r8m2BUaqbK7QV8RHcE6AJaIg=; b=PR5g1+ocJ8Ue5bZ9351RMi4HCwwlNlrb+NvnMx5VayM+GGG9Gj0xS2eQLnqsNuJHBB py0S8vtBkyVqf778ROq4W8ea85NP3z2vUeFm4Cuo0nILMFVvkkCLKmGX7vQoYNwOTg8U DEFCv4pTvSbW1MwXpJAeuBlUFtCxmXFMqS8pMhM9Jyeoabf7GtSSqaU/PAMowDsBp2wr y96iEORLDnBRywbDDJef8Fx1Kh+dw+qxPvNpcaqIJtSH8mjAnP227IDJU2+L6rAudjDf vkptPAih8WwhiQZD/nh5p2egScDb9ql10SIhZOorSCz2+595Ujk/uoBWY+tyyQZnrFLB x1Xw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.88.197 with SMTP id bi5mr22375216vdb.58.1364466146050; Thu, 28 Mar 2013 03:22:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5153d313$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <0b779c80-4f50-4716-8c30-47755c15f304@m12g2000yqp.googlegroups.com> <5153a12d$0$29998$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <5153d313$0$29984$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2013 21:22:25 +1100 Subject: Re: flaming vs accuracy [was Re: Performance of int/long in Python 3] From: Chris Angelico To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1364466148 news.xs4all.nl 6968 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:49982 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:42110 On Thu, Mar 28, 2013 at 4:20 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Wed, 27 Mar 2013 20:49:20 -0700, rusi wrote: > >> In particular "You are a liar" is as bad as "You are an idiot" The same >> statement can be made non-abusively thus: "... is not true because ..." > > I accept that criticism, even if I disagree with it. Does that make > sense? I mean it in the sense that I accept that your opinion differs > from mine. > > Politeness does not always trump honesty, and stating that somebody's > statement "is not true because..." is not the same as stating that they > are deliberately telling lies (rather than merely being mistaken or > confused). There comes a time when a bit of rudeness is a small cost to pay for forum maintenance. Before you criticize someone for nit-picking, think what happens when someone reads the thread archive. Of course, that particular example can be done courteously too - cf the "def" vs "class" nit from a recent thread. But it'd still be of value even if done rudely, so the hundreds of subsequent readers would have a chance to know what's going on. I was researching a problem with ALSA a couple of weeks ago, and came across a forum thread that discussed exactly what I needed to know. A dozen or so courteous posts delivered misinformation; finally someone had the guts to be rude and call people out for posting incorrect points (and got criticized for doing so), and that one post was the most useful in the whole thread. I'd rather this list have some vinegar than it devolve into uselessness. Or, worse, if there's a hard-and-fast rule about courtesy, devolve into aspartame... everyone's courteous in words but hates each other underneath. Or am I taking the analogy too far? :) ChrisA