Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed4.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.014 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'received:80.91': 0.09; 'received:80.91.229': 0.09; 'received:gmane.org': 0.09; 'received:list': 0.09; 'subject:language': 0.09; '>in': 0.16; 'benjamin': 0.16; 'hammers,': 0.16; 'message-id:@4ax.com': 0.16; 'received:80.91.229.3': 0.16; 'received:plane.gmane.org': 0.16; 'subject:programming': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'saying': 0.22; "shouldn't": 0.24; 'url:home': 0.24; 'subject:/': 0.26; 'header:X -Complaints-To:1': 0.27; 'dec': 0.30; 'monday,': 0.33; 'programmers': 0.33; 'december': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'charset:us- ascii': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'received:76': 0.38; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.38; 'expect': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'high': 0.63; 'teaching': 0.64; 'school': 0.64; 'end.': 0.84; 'oscar': 0.84; 'that!)': 0.84; '2013': 0.98 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: python-list@python.org From: Dennis Lee Bieber Subject: Re: Experiences/guidance on teaching Python as a first programming language Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2013 20:35:47 -0500 Organization: IISS Elusive Unicorn References: <889721b4-a980-4205-9b1d-a1bedadd7eb3@googlegroups.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: adsl-76-249-24-121.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 6.00/32.1186 X-No-Archive: YES X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1386725754 news.xs4all.nl 2829 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:45152 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:61513 On Tue, 10 Dec 2013 18:25:48 +1300, Gregory Ewing declaimed the following: >> On Monday, December 9, 2013 5:53:41 PM UTC+5:30, Oscar Benjamin wrote: >> >>>5) Learning to program "should be painful" and we should expect the >>>students to complain about it (someone actually said that!) but the >>>pain makes them better programmers in the end. > >That's like saying that when teaching woodwork we shouldn't >let people use hammers, we should make them use rocks to >bang nails in, because it will make them better carpenters >in the long run. NAILS???? Nails were verboten in my high school wood working class... We used dowels and glue; chisels to carve dove-tails; etc. -- Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN wlfraed@ix.netcom.com HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/