Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!aioe.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.01; 'ide': 0.05; 'interpreter': 0.05; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'hettinger': 0.07; 'reason.': 0.07; 'tab': 0.07; 'python': 0.08; 'command- line': 0.09; 'etc).': 0.09; 'freezes': 0.09; 'myself,': 0.09; 'configure': 0.10; 'broken': 0.12; 'discussions': 0.12; 'things.': 0.12; 'received:209.85.210.174': 0.13; 'received:mail- iy0-f174.google.com': 0.13; 'python?': 0.15; 'startup': 0.15; 'downside,': 0.16; 'requisite': 0.16; 'sticking': 0.16; 'switching': 0.16; 'tcl/tk': 0.16; 'wing': 0.16; 'cc:addr:python- list': 0.16; 'mon,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'simpler': 0.18; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.20; "aren't": 0.21; 'linux,': 0.21; 'raymond': 0.21; 'dec': 0.22; "doesn't": 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'runs': 0.23; 'path,': 0.23; 'purposes.': 0.23; 'though.': 0.23; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'command': 0.24; 'specify': 0.24; 'code': 0.25; "i'm": 0.26; 'fix': 0.27; 'url:mailman': 0.28; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.28; 'idle': 0.29; 'introductory': 0.29; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.29; 'pm,': 0.29; 'class': 0.29; 'commands,': 0.30; 'confusion': 0.30; 'installation': 0.30; 'least': 0.30; '(as': 0.31; "i've": 0.31; 'source': 0.31; 'version': 0.32; 'labs': 0.32; 'url:listinfo': 0.32; 'there': 0.33; 'points': 0.34; 'directory.': 0.34; 'running': 0.35; 'install': 0.35; 'url:python': 0.36; 'uses': 0.36; 'but': 0.37; 'run': 0.37; 'received:google.com': 0.37; 'not,': 0.37; 'allows': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'received:209.85': 0.38; 'url:org': 0.39; 'university': 0.39; 'tool': 0.39; 'why': 0.39; "it's": 0.40; 'received:209': 0.40; '2011': 0.61; 'design': 0.61; 'browser': 0.61; 'your': 0.61; 'direct': 0.67; 'saw': 0.67; '19,': 0.68; 'ship': 0.78; '(university': 0.84; '101,': 0.84; '10:51': 0.84; 'ime': 0.84; 'overheard': 0.84; '\xc2\xa0it': 0.84; 'courses.': 0.91; 'overall,': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0Xmp85JXoBD8euMAl7scYC81kitQey73pRzS0GWooT0=; b=HmYov1bmcNWkD5P20cJZPVV5bLt4XTzSJBg5uuYp24oK+eumBHcKQTC+5l8iKFyB3n bqm8I9wYTOn49snfki3gMcDpSdHwfU1GHrsvBkyWckJQrLEa1BSxqZqFnwsDooxOnicA fJb6Sq84SDpXm0IwxRX9CaVeEPJFpSfI3v7Ag= MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <06423dd7-4fbb-4e7a-b529-e697ea862b05@f11g2000yql.googlegroups.com> References: <06423dd7-4fbb-4e7a-b529-e697ea862b05@f11g2000yql.googlegroups.com> From: Devin Jeanpierre Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 02:32:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Python education survey To: Raymond Hettinger Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: python-list@python.org X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 47 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1324366417 news.xs4all.nl 6964 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:35614 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:17564 My university (University of Toronto) helped design Wing 101, and uses it exclusively in introductory courses. Overall, the only major sticking points that I saw (as a TA who helped with the code labs and setup) were installation issues on OS X (relating to X11) and some confusion on when the embedded interactive interpreter gets refreshed ("hit run first"). It's a "big" editor with lots of buttons, but IME students are good at ignoring things. Truthfully I'm not sure why it's great for teaching, though. And there were some discussions I overheard about perhaps switching to PyCharm, which at least one professor thought was much better. And I personally prefer simpler editors for my own use, not just for educational purposes. Eh. -- Devin On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Raymond Hettinger wrote: > Do you use IDLE when teaching Python? > If not, what is the tool of choice? > > Students may not be experienced with the command-line and may be > running Windows, Linux, or Macs. =C2=A0Ideally, the tool or IDE will be > easy to install and configure (startup directory, path, associated > with a particular version of Python etc). > > Though an Emacs user myself, I've been teaching with IDLE because it's > free; it runs on multiple OSes, it has tooltips and code colorization > and easy indent/dedent/comment/uncomment commands, it has tab > completion; it allows easy editing at the interactive prompt; it has > an easy run-script command (F5); it has direct access to source code > (File OpenModule) and a class browser (Cntl+B). > > On the downside, some python distros aren't built with the requisite > Tcl/Tk support; some distros like the Mac OS ship with a broken Tcl/Tk > so users have to install a fix to that as well; and IDLE sometimes > just freezes for no reason. =C2=A0It also doesn't have an easy way to > specify the startup directory. > > If your goal is to quickly get new users up and running in Python, > what IDE or editor do you recommend? > > > Raymond > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list