Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.etla.org!news.stack.nl!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.010 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.02; 'init': 0.07; 'useless': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; 'changes': 0.15; 'ah,': 0.16; 'charge,': 0.16; 'ironed': 0.16; 'janssen': 0.16; 'subclasses': 0.16; 'subject:object': 0.16; 'whatsoever': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; '(not': 0.18; "hasn't": 0.19; 'header:In-Reply- To:1': 0.27; 'tried': 0.27; 'idea': 0.28; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'skip:( 20': 0.30; 'went': 0.31; 'that.': 0.31; '25,': 0.31; 'class': 0.32; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'classes': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'architecture': 0.38; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'expect': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'here': 0.66; 'anything.': 0.68; 'proposal:': 0.84; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=I/sw6pfhccS4oeT7OQpZR2KavDO97fuNW0+9U3NSW3o=; b=QR42mvJAm+lwscPLtYi80uPJs+rwsxFFnfFXc7ahL1be767ORFmiSKpJhDrnezpx00 RihrgoT4O5tKEGunY5xPMiTBx8wH7MWxtqb/CfuNOcvjiPJaVAqT02jwFoAYNS/SO1ON pS/uaDjomeyG30Vdr04/FbTPGKyjNeIbOJ9YB4KorEFFOauLaFGOncDVsNab9x7mRxU0 n/NlRzrfT0fACLXRmml8+YTj9CI63Ick8GUwpK+qNOCl5P6ntt+41QmiA5JcH8+ANgWz PgAYmfFkiSLTThkn6UMln3vEFUKnSeja15yehzLVRL6a7MNUvaVRA+988sPOi6GRHJ/Q ++Pw== X-Received: by 10.68.180.101 with SMTP id dn5mr963747pbc.209.1372198903090; Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:21:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <15ba0011-bbf1-42f7-b3ea-1c1d4b70e56b@googlegroups.com> <51c66962$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <20130623133546.GA2308@capricorn> <51c723b4$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <51C74D6E.6030200@rece.vub.ac.be> From: Ian Kelly Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2013 16:21:02 -0600 Subject: Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? To: Python Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1372198906 news.xs4all.nl 15865 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:49985 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:49194 On Tue, Jun 25, 2013 at 3:58 PM, Mark Janssen wrote: > Ah, and here we see the weakness in the object architecture that has > evolved in the past decade (not just in Python, note). It hasn't > really ironed out what end is what. Here's a proposal: the highest, > most "parental", most general object should be in charge, not > subclasses calling specific parent's init methods > (Parent.__init__(myparams)), etc. -- ***THIS IS WHERE WE WENT > WRONG***. > > After the "type/class unification", python tried to make the most > generic, most useless class be the parent of *all of them*, but > there's been no use whatsoever in that. It was a good idea in the > beginning, so pure as it was, but it has not panned out in practice. > Sorry... So instead of super(), you would have sub()? It's an interesting concept, but I don't think it changes anything. You still have to design your classes cooperatively if you expect to use them with multiple inheritance.