Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!feeder.erje.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed6.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.004 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'args': 0.05; 'parameter': 0.05; 'forcing': 0.07; 'statically': 0.07; 'subject:based': 0.07; '*args': 0.09; 'content-type:multipart/signed': 0.09; 'filename:fname piece:signature': 0.09; 'omit': 0.09; 'tuple': 0.09; '*never*': 0.16; 'args"': 0.16; 'content-type:application /pgp-signature': 0.16; 'cryptic': 0.16; 'declaration': 0.16; 'elsewhere,': 0.16; 'filename:fname piece:asc': 0.16; 'filename:fname:signature.asc': 0.16; 'insofar': 0.16; 'lengths': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:syntax': 0.16; 'syntax': 0.16; 'examples': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'appears': 0.19; 'checked': 0.21; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'optional': 0.23; 'tried': 0.27; 'bit': 0.28; 'problem': 0.29; 'conversion.': 0.30; 'proposing': 0.30; 'least': 0.30; 'does': 0.32; 'about.': 0.32; 'list': 0.32; 'pretty': 0.32; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.33; 'instead': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.34; 'plus.': 0.34; 'symbol': 0.34; '(not': 0.35; 'changing': 0.35; 'languages': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'subject:/': 0.35; 'skip:" 10': 0.37; 'but': 0.37; 'received:192': 0.37; 'another': 0.37; 'think': 0.37; 'received:128': 0.37; 'could': 0.37; 'using': 0.38; 'largely': 0.38; 'some': 0.38; 'several': 0.38; 'received:192.168.0': 0.38; 'characters': 0.39; "it's": 0.40; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'received:192.168': 0.40; 'more': 0.61; 'type': 0.61; 'making': 0.67; 'collection': 0.69; 'wish': 0.70; 'care': 0.71; 'want,': 0.71; 'situations.': 0.73; 'ring': 0.77; ':).': 0.84; 'defeat': 0.84; 'distinguish': 0.84; 'flexible,': 0.84; 'subject:\t': 0.93 Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2011 14:20:20 -0600 From: Evan Driscoll User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:8.0) Gecko/20111105 Thunderbird/8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Pythonification of the asterisk-based collection packing/unpacking syntax References: <841f4d29-f50b-4b0b-912b-b497fb6e60ec@t16g2000vba.googlegroups.com> <15424060.724.1324183952802.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@prix23> <298b28e6-b8c9-43e1-8c90-cf0d7654fe68@y12g2000vba.googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <298b28e6-b8c9-43e1-8c90-cf0d7654fe68@y12g2000vba.googlegroups.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.4 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------enig2AE01B475EB68871C7024887" X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 58 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1324239668 news.xs4all.nl 6957 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:34210 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:17477 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --------------enig2AE01B475EB68871C7024887 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 12/18/2011 8:35, Eelco wrote: > No, its not type *checking*, its type *declaration*. I tried to go to > great lengths to point that out, but it appears I did not do a very > good job :). Type declaration is exactly what I want, and insofar this > syntax has already found adoptation elsewhere, ill consider that a > plus. You say it's found adoption elsewhere, but I think it's that adoption which makes it a *bad* idea, because it does something entirely different in those situations. Other languages are using that syntax for something which is statically checked -- you are proposing that syntax for a dynamic conversion. look pretty familiar... (Not to mention if you just omit the type from the examples above you need another way to distinguish between args and kwargs.) > Yes, one could opt for a syntax where the collection type is optional > and a sensible default is chosen, But to me that would largely defeat > the point; I very much like the added verbosity and explicitness. args-= > tuple and kwargs-dict; that just has a much better ring to it than > star-star-kwargs, or whatever other cryptic symbol you use. My problem with it is that it in some sense is forcing me to make a decision I don't care about. Yes, what we have now is less flexible, but I have *never* said "man, I wish this *args parameter were a list instead of a tuple". So at least for me, making me say "args::tuple" or "@tuple args" or whatever is just changing the syntax a bit and adding several more characters for me to type. Evan --------------enig2AE01B475EB68871C7024887 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJO7ksEAAoJEAOzoR8eZTzgQgEH/RE0p/m73SOEmj2gdjVPWPG0 KLU261cafSesKtc1+eglkcDqZ4tLW18010D8ixh6KIY6C0S4dv/x85x2gHDWcmBc RXKCcqKDrBlFdy1en9S1sil3zUbllCWxTXSHCipf6VblOfFIEenAEzyzw3991+jK IzezfQaDkosrORvsG10cDCfLRln6eAXiBoIuTJI0ySJ21EE/e+z9fp/tUQ/4Sl4Q YqB+MmGVvu4gxN+ynYV+OPHdcysuO9tiTX5ow0DZO5R42yDhtbhK6PWzkAHzCUqg CFkcUQ20q5b+HmGjh18HtHYFySTvkf9k8cupOIl9J2Ev8qOsLNv2zz7Z/470Wi0= =glXh -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------enig2AE01B475EB68871C7024887--