Path: csiph.com!eternal-september.org!feeder.eternal-september.org!border1.nntp.ams1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed7.news.xs4all.nl!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.003 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.99; '*S*': 0.00; 'anyway.': 0.04; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'works.': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'dict': 0.09; 'sane': 0.09; 'work"': 0.09; 'do,': 0.15; 'ah,': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'write,': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; '2015': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'work,': 0.21; 'logical': 0.22; 'sep': 0.22; 'am,': 0.23; 'seems': 0.23; 'sat,': 0.23; 'header:In- Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'sort': 0.25; "doesn't": 0.26; 'sense': 0.26; 'chris': 0.26; 'fri,': 0.27; 'updating': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'behaviour': 0.29; 'documenting': 0.29; 'work.': 0.30; 'certainly': 0.30; 'especially': 0.32; 'returned': 0.32; 'source': 0.33; 'gives': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'execution': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'skip:i 20': 0.36; 'created': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; '12,': 0.37; "won't": 0.38; '(that': 0.63; 'worth': 0.67; '"it': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'locals': 0.84; 'using.': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=jyzoTGSixUFa7qScrLN+ef+XZdG/2ocm66iJ3LeoEcw=; b=k/ZoG2BifdjiWolpolXDCVEzGyoQ+Hwc9ZqzWGG835Aklwx3lvOuYYnL/asU2UETAu g3dbfEikxzM0LML30AoMZxIQxrlvO4+C7uszZyGOwdOrE8w3sSb3EYgxs5653rpK07of ty2McdU2lKlxd5AJrIpSqPsPSu/Gz5LrdmHKlF92CHmXIGkgrDRH36wYyi5eQBOCQ5Z3 GUyDgmyRx/kcLcSl+icodN0Re6VihJHekPCYeLKXsULnWyH9ylyJhpnGLpyKVRFlWA9m D3rkM4SaJX6muPPrAa2nsN7Ezi4ip2APFQGJL5T43ec5vyQ98LgSa54l1sLiQkmimyWp 4QwQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.107.36.8 with SMTP id k8mr4788576iok.157.1441987461754; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:04:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1441987052.3506145.381042489.570191F2@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <55f293da$0$1640$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <1441987052.3506145.381042489.570191F2@webmail.messagingengine.com> Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 02:04:21 +1000 Subject: Re: Python handles globals badly. From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1441987463 news.xs4all.nl 23816 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:55080 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96354 On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 1:57 AM, wrote: > On Fri, Sep 11, 2015, at 11:55, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Sat, Sep 12, 2015 at 1:49 AM, Ian Kelly wrote: >> > Ah, that makes sense. It's writing into the dict that is created and >> > returned by locals(), but not actually updating the frame locals which >> > are the source of truth. >> >> Yeah... but it only makes sense to people who understand the >> implementation. It's certainly not a logical and sane behaviour that >> would be worth documenting and using. > > What else would you document? Reading from them is a reasonable thing to > do, and works. Writing to them is a reasonable thing to want to do, but > won't work, so you need to document that it doesn't work. Documenting that "it doesn't work" seems fine. Documenting the specific behaviour (that it gives you a sort of "shadow" locals, into which you can write, but which won't persist past the execution of that block of code) seems pointless. Especially since this behaviour is implementation-dependent anyway. ChrisA