Path: csiph.com!x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!xlned.com!feeder7.xlned.com!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.000 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'python,': 0.01; 'extracted': 0.05; 'terry': 0.07; 'wrapper': 0.07; 'python': 0.08; 'callable': 0.09; 'from:addr:ethan': 0.09; 'from:addr:stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'from:name:ethan furman': 0.09; 'function:': 0.09; 'message-id:@stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'method:': 0.09; 'received:gator410.hostgator.com': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; 'am,': 0.12; 'method.': 0.15; '(note:': 0.16; 'parameter,': 0.16; 'received:70.85.130': 0.16; 'received:72.11': 0.16; 'received:72.11.125': 0.16; 'received:72.11.125.166': 0.16; 'received:gateway13.websitewelcome.com': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'terry,': 0.16; 'unbound': 0.16; 'looked': 0.16; 'meant': 0.17; 'wrote:': 0.18; '>>>': 0.18; 'instance': 0.18; 'dec': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.22; 'code': 0.25; 'function': 0.27; 'missed': 0.28; 'subject:" ': 0.28; '(and': 0.28; 'indicated': 0.29; 'worked': 0.29; 'class': 0.29; 'correct': 0.29; 'definition': 0.30; 'usually': 0.31; 'does': 0.32; 'thu,': 0.32; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.33; 'agree': 0.33; 'object': 0.33; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.34; 'follows:': 0.34; 'calling': 0.34; 'skip:h 40': 0.34; 'subject:with': 0.36; 'bound': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'think': 0.37; 'steven': 0.38; 'created': 0.38; 'should': 0.39; 'help': 0.39; 'subject: (': 0.40; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; '2011': 0.61; 'matter': 0.61; 'your': 0.61; 'lives': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'received:websitewelcome.com': 0.64; 'here': 0.65; 'received:184': 0.67; 'supply': 0.69; '-0500,': 0.84; 'disagreement': 0.84; 'entry,': 0.84 Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 16:34:49 -0800 From: Ethan Furman User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: AttributeError in "with" statement (3.2.2) References: <4ee857d4$0$11091$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4ee97f20$0$11091$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com> <4eeb0ddb$0$29979$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <4EEBD3A6.4030700@stoneleaf.us> In-Reply-To: <4EEBD3A6.4030700@stoneleaf.us> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator410.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - python.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - stoneleaf.us X-BWhitelist: no X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: mail.admailinc.com ([192.168.10.136]) [72.11.125.166]:4649 X-Source-Auth: ethan+stoneleaf.us X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: dG9idWs7dG9idWs7Z2F0b3I0MTAuaG9zdGdhdG9yLmNvbQ== X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 52 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1324083074 news.xs4all.nl 6859 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:46611 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: x330-a1.tempe.blueboxinc.net comp.lang.python:17396 Ethan Furman wrote: > Terry Reedy wrote: >> On 12/16/2011 4:22 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:39:17 -0500, Terry Reedy wrote: >>> [...] >>> >>> After reading your post, I think I have worked out where our >>> disagreement >>> lies: you think that bound methods and instance methods are not the same >>> thing, >> >> Do you agree that an unbound method and a bound method are different? >> In Python, as indicated by the glossary entry, an unspecified 'method' >> is usually meant to be an unbound method. > > I think you two are in violent agreement as far as how Python is > functioning, and the conflict is in the names given to the various > pieces... I think a glossary would help (please correct me): > > function: callable code suite > > method: function that lives in a class > > unbound method: function that lives in a class > > bound method: callable wrapper around function that has been extracted > from class that will supply the instance object to the function (note: > Python does not save these, they are recreated at each lookup) I think the above 'bound method' definition should be attributed to Terry, and Steven's follows: bound method: callable wrapper around any function that will accept an instance object as the first parameter, and the wrapper will supply said instance object when calling the function (and where/how function was created is irrelevent, as is where the wrapper is stored) > > > and here is where I think you two diverge: > > instance method (Steven): a bound method that has been saved into the > instance __dict__ (no matter how created) > > instance method (Terry): a function that must be looked up in the class > > > Have I missed anything? > > Honestly-trying-learn-the-distinctions-ly yours, > > ~Ethan~