Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!newsfeed.freenet.ag!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.011 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.98; '*S*': 0.00; 'suddenly': 0.07; 'objects,': 0.09; 'sure,': 0.09; 'python': 0.11; '24,': 0.16; 'devs': 0.16; 'metaclasses': 0.16; 'new-style': 0.16; 'old-style': 0.16; 'require,': 0.16; 'subject:object': 0.16; 'wanted.': 0.16; 'so.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'do.': 0.18; 'seems': 0.21; 'mon,': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'correct': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'easier': 0.31; "d'aprano": 0.31; 'ordinary': 0.31; 'steven': 0.31; 'probably': 0.32; 'themselves': 0.32; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'could': 0.34; 'classes': 0.35; 'objects': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'doubt': 0.36; 'instances': 0.36; 'done': 0.36; 'whatever': 0.38; 'to:addr :python-list': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; "you're": 0.61; 'costs': 0.63; '9:00': 0.91; 'thing,': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type; bh=pvOhDhcg7KKYV8Sknza9L2G4zWHQ+lsvkbUm9jecsik=; b=rvtBX3vbWfaYoXQhxHvSBy3jAZJVvJkiZGa7KAoaaSSvypoqDvLYJbMnKh5kcQvIbz eHtDCqYDi8oGzj0xLItOvl6Dl2OMJt68m70EqQ1bJ78s0Qu6xjdmNGZAhjN1TQ7pE/m9 uReklAbIPEoO9qg8EUy6xSqkDhXsclBmBdQTfYfei5PUlDKyxILeIcOceWMbCuV9bDq0 mRCIZnMMv5BOLFIx62No5bc6+2Rp/6zJ78pc2muAgHTzvT5CIbLkkN8PlVqFhP5g/gkd 1wQiFEyzUhkoHFF6lPG9igM/JlzOLknvgv0P1QeINqJgXumzYJPMxSbhUXul+Y4674tw BkTA== X-Received: by 10.66.144.136 with SMTP id sm8mr28238546pab.115.1372094673243; Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:24:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <15ba0011-bbf1-42f7-b3ea-1c1d4b70e56b@googlegroups.com> <51c66962$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <51c68638$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <51c7308d$0$29999$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <51c7e7ca$0$29973$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> From: Ian Kelly Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:23:53 -0600 Subject: Re: What is the semantics meaning of 'object'? To: Python Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1372094681 news.xs4all.nl 15993 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:46413 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:49057 On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 9:00 AM, Rotwang wrote: > On 24/06/2013 07:31, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> I daresay that there are good reasons why new-style classes don't do the >> same thing, but the point is that had the Python devs had been >> sufficiently interested in keeping the old behaviour, and willing to pay >> whatever costs that would require, they could have done so. > > > Sure, though the above behaviour was probably easier to achieve with > old-style classes than it would have been with new-style classes because all > instances of old-style classes have the same type. But I don't doubt that > you're correct that they could have done it if they wanted. It seems to me that the important difference with new-style classes is that they suddenly have metaclasses and are themselves just ordinary objects, and so it is important that they consistently resolve calls in the same way that all other objects do.