Path: csiph.com!news.swapon.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail From: Random832 Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Subject: Re: Drowning in a teacup? Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 15:54:28 -0400 Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de S6kKE/bpH0X3jL2k9yD7igZSPbG6jykWca31brWEP4Eg== Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'assignment': 0.07; 'friday,': 0.07; 'caller.': 0.09; 'mutable': 0.09; 'received:internal': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'value.': 0.15; '"value"': 0.16; '2016': 0.16; 'confusion': 0.16; 'languages)': 0.16; 'message-id:@webmail.messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'proceeding': 0.16; 'received:10.202': 0.16; 'received:10.202.2': 0.16; 'received:10.202.2.212': 0.16; 'received:66.111': 0.16; 'received:66.111.4': 0.16; 'received:66.111.4.27': 0.16; 'received:io': 0.16; 'received:messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'received:out3-smtp.messagingengine.com': 0.16; 'received:psf.io': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'pointed': 0.18; 'pass': 0.22; 'sat,': 0.23; 'properties': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'order.': 0.27; 'function': 0.28; 'holds': 0.32; 'statement': 0.32; 'point': 0.33; 'false': 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'there': 0.36; '(and': 0.36; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.36; 'subject:?': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'received:10': 0.37; 'being': 0.37; 'received:66': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.40; 'called': 0.40; 'header :Message-Id:1': 0.61; 'here.': 0.62; 'matter': 0.63; 'batchelder': 0.84; 'utc-4,': 0.84; 'notorious': 0.91; 'have.': 0.93 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.com; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-sasl-enc :x-sasl-enc; s=mesmtp; bh=MNY9kmZFGrh23Z7tWv6wA56HFYk=; b=WKck5w MkGzsQZ23vpUbIvu8zFZFwyEh+d9dzCFQRKo9otfezic7h5XC5OVCcAqYXgkQH00 Fus70sOcXmBcyEvk3hHQqurI2Svedk/G31tEAiwOdQA2iPSVR51PWmn9k1pM8JXx cu1ymwU4p4Kyf1WzJXmY5AqlUEEH5ne/YY99U= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-sasl-enc:x-sasl-enc; s=smtpout; bh=MNY9kmZFGrh23Z7 tWv6wA56HFYk=; b=YthoO8sg0gjJm399nmVPOpXTtabNtwcDs/hGqd0AD6hqTdl OYs4CTShjmimTzBkhLpbYAH8LuG3CfPWbxWdI/KTVA0MZ37/WQT+vH2FPvuO49qq nLb3X/DlYaYW4sjgQqN3fWOPoxvNuju9brTi31QY+TL5JRIifs+gu6Oy3vVY= X-Sasl-Enc: Jw6IliJa8cH6zvH4+LpL+dfe6UUn4YUG5kfNVg7QewcW 1459626868 X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface - ajax-2373d6a1 In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:106309 On Sat, Apr 2, 2016, at 15:28, Ned Batchelder wrote: > On Friday, April 1, 2016 at 4:27:30 PM UTC-4, Fillmore wrote: > > notorious pass by reference vs pass by value biting me in the backside > > here. Proceeding in order. > > As others have pointed out, this is false dichotomy. There are other > possibilities than pass by reference and pass by value. Python (and > many other languages) use something called pass by object or pass by > sharing. I think that this arises from a confusion as to what a "value" is in "pass by value". The point of it being pass by value is that there is no statement you can execute in the function that has the effect of an assignment of the expression that was passed in from the caller. This holds no matter what kind of object is passed in or what mutable properties it has or does not have.