Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!dedibox.gegeweb.org!gegeweb.eu!nntpfeed.proxad.net!proxad.net!feeder1-2.proxad.net!usenet-fr.net!nerim.net!novso.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed5.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.002 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'memory.': 0.05; 'python': 0.09; 'typed': 0.09; 'aug': 0.13; '(rather': 0.16; '4:59': 0.16; 'jerry': 0.16; 'lisp': 0.16; 'lisp,': 0.16; 'personally,': 0.16; 'silly': 0.16; 'still,': 0.16; 'subject:Objects': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.17; 'thu,': 0.17; 'variables': 0.17; '(or': 0.18; 'variable': 0.20; 'trying': 0.21; 'java': 0.21; 'either.': 0.22; 'seems': 0.23; 'idea': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.25; 'values': 0.26; 'am,': 0.27; 'see,': 0.27; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; 'helpful.': 0.29; 'words': 0.29; 'received:209.85.160.46': 0.32; 'to:addr:python- list': 0.33; 'received:google.com': 0.34; 'done': 0.34; 'list': 0.35; 'clear': 0.35; 'especially': 0.35; 'sometimes': 0.35; 'received:209.85': 0.35; 'explain': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'skip:p 20': 0.36; 'quite': 0.37; 'received:209': 0.37; 'far': 0.37; 'subject:: ': 0.38; 'object': 0.38; 'several': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'where': 0.40; 'header:Received:5': 0.40; 'think': 0.40; 'helps': 0.63; 'different': 0.63; 'world': 0.63; 'me).': 0.84 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=IXIQNXnv8h8UaeyywgRVXg1SrQod4swbgt70Xxg3JF8=; b=gYYd3KzPyDZkA9Y/io4L9d1USAarHOrDNUCOFLWCFg4x/FGQwhgGCYTRpjKvqfXNPx YaWGlMf/qRwxGVjwPlbdsB0oypMLHeUxJO/bGtrlCEa8J3BAtpdp8EMuOoRocj0vKntZ s8LPFk/aJeiD+w4ojmemjD1yGVBtalx+2iUd0D7ULqgiZh0NCvpXjT+nGC6M8PWTSnaP Xzxx5gfhi1rSoyaxiFVrnkk66DyUSNFiZ1QicFXQZjcb5W9tFS3ANt6kzP/iaUw44sd7 QJkaukpjWdb/SUeCuCSB/+HskJmEEQ0RUBETO++Z+sp8Py/JlA8aAxP6b1b9OxlUj6zb +5Xw== MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <18409992-1e28-4721-8e64-60c69668da4e@googlegroups.com> <87d32i1ntc.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <5035d3e4$0$1645$c3e8da3$76491128@news.astraweb.com> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 10:43:48 -0400 Subject: Re: Objects in Python From: Jerry Hill To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1345733032 news.xs4all.nl 6964 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:34901 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:27739 On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 4:59 AM, Jussi Piitulainen wrote: > I don't get it either. To me the python-has-no-variables campaigners > seem confused. As far as I can see, Python can be seen in terms of > variables bound to (locations containing) values perfectly well, in a > way that should be quite familiar to people who come from Java (or > Lisp, Scheme like me). Personally, when I was learning python I found the idea of python having names and values (rather than variables and references) to clear up a lot of my misconceptions of the python object model. I think it's done the same for other people too, especially those who come from the C world, where a variable is a named and typed location in memory. Perhaps those that come from the Java and Lisp world don't find the name/value paradigm as helpful. Still, it seems silly to excoriate people on the list for trying to explain python fundamentals in several different ways. Sometimes explaining the same idea in different words helps people understand the concept better. -- Jerry