Path: csiph.com!v102.xanadu-bbs.net!xanadu-bbs.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder3.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.042 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.92; '*S*': 0.00; 'variables': 0.07; 'string': 0.09; 'assigning': 0.09; 'dan': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python- list': 0.11; 'python': 0.11; 'mostly': 0.14; 'cc:name:python list': 0.16; 'culturally': 0.16; 'names?': 0.16; 'of)': 0.16; '\xa0what': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'seems': 0.21; 'example': 0.22; 'email addr:gmail.com>': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; "haven't": 0.24; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'sort': 0.25; '>': 0.26; 'long,': 0.26; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'michael': 0.29; 'dec': 0.30; 'direction': 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; '(which': 0.31; 'code': 0.31; 'getting': 0.31; 'lines': 0.31; 'multiline': 0.31; 'perl': 0.31; 'anyone': 0.31; 'fri,': 0.33; 'maybe': 0.34; 'skip:s 30': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'really': 0.36; 'culture': 0.36; 'too': 0.37; 'turn': 0.37; 'list.': 0.37; 'expressed': 0.37; 'being': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'does': 0.39; 'bad': 0.39; 'first': 0.61; 'more': 0.64; 'temporary': 0.65; 'to:addr:gmail.com': 0.65; 'beautiful': 0.68; 'physical': 0.72; 'subject:One': 0.74; 'complex,': 0.84; 'expressive': 0.84; 'itself?': 0.84; 'yours': 0.88; 'received:mail- wi0-x229.google.com': 0.91; 'trend': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=bcn8KqebG+zAo7KoctcMHjtY0XofLlV79WSThK+P6pc=; b=ISmRqQECvEqwBYB4M5oxm91JBlW/Ypm1aU/vtxgfBAf1PcRuEm7ORgklGSE2A8GhP3 0/h+2hJEO95Svd9NfCqCjUsvYHucHz92/311wd/Bf9lt3MXsXJsaeB+q793hfjpK/OOW V3u58nPyJrpdjZl4Ce8oMT5q/eOhrYzSCxj8Q7wnos3riWw2kbe0MeHzwyFZWCHltCka nUtnzcVTuUgE4OPRsdwWzDcH8nP+w9Me0JFpTShj4mCtv2u1p6E1nG+oai2DR+PQKETC /Mn17KEBcZHvRCsEn/Wq4PIF+4youylPHodO9u34KH+lrGFI8SaFUA1xneUz8BcGrNSG eohA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.84.72 with SMTP id w8mr24510985wjy.55.1386375289173; Fri, 06 Dec 2013 16:14:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <52A26763.3070803@gmail.com> References: <52A26763.3070803@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2013 16:14:49 -0800 Subject: Re: One liners From: Dan Stromberg To: Michael Torrie Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bea40baa2fa6d04ece6a69f Cc: Python List X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 86 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1386375296 news.xs4all.nl 2909 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:50144 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:61199 --047d7bea40baa2fa6d04ece6a69f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Michael Torrie wrote: > On 12/06/2013 04:54 PM, Dan Stromberg wrote: > > Does anyone else feel like Python is being dragged too far in the > direction > > of long, complex, multiline one-liners? Or avoiding temporary variables > > with descriptive names? Or using regex's for everything under the sun? > > > > What happened to using classes? What happened to the beautiful emphasis > on > > readability? What happened to debuggability (which is always harder than > > writing things in the first place)? And what happened to string methods? > > > > I'm pleased to see Python getting more popular, but it feels like a lot > of > > newcomers are trying their best to turn Python into Perl or something, > > culturally speaking. > > I have not seen any evidence that this trend of yours is widespread. > The Python code I come across seems pretty normal to me. Expressive and > readable. Haven't seen any attempt to turn Python into Perl or that > sort of thing. And I don't see that culture expressed on the list. > Maybe I'm just blind... I'm thinking mostly of stackoverflow, but here's an example I ran into (a lot of) on a job: somevar = some_complicated_thing(somevar) if some_other_complicated_thing(somevar) else somevar Would it really be so bad to just use an if statement? Why are we assigning somevar to itself? This sort of thing was strewn across 3 or 4 physical lines at a time. --047d7bea40baa2fa6d04ece6a69f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 4:10 PM, Michael Torrie <torriem@gmail.com><= /span> wrote:
On 1= 2/06/2013 04:54 PM, Dan Stromberg wrote:
> Does anyone else feel like Python is being dragged too far in the dire= ction
> of long, complex, multiline one-liners? =A0Or avoiding temporary varia= bles
> with descriptive names? =A0Or using regex's for everything under t= he sun?
>
> What happened to using classes? =A0What happened to the beautiful emph= asis on
> readability? =A0What happened to debuggability (which is always harder= than
> writing things in the first place)? =A0And what happened to string met= hods?
>
> I'm pleased to see Python getting more popular, but it feels like = a lot of
> newcomers are trying their best to turn Python into Perl or something,=
> culturally speaking.

I have not seen any evidence that this trend of yours is widesp= read.
The Python code I come across seems pretty normal to me. =A0Expressive and<= br> readable. =A0Haven't seen any attempt to turn Python into Perl or that<= br> sort of thing. =A0And I don't see that culture expressed on the list. Maybe I'm just blind...

I'm thinkin= g mostly of stackoverflow, but here's an example I ran into (a lot of) = on a job:

somevar =3D some_complicated_thing(somevar) if = some_other_complicated_thing(somevar) else somevar

Would it really be so bad to just use an if statement?=A0 Wh= y are we assigning somevar to itself?=A0 This sort of thing was strewn acro= ss 3 or 4 physical lines at a time.

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