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bh=F0qkBIC56tJ6ETr8gL2JI+hTrcoMLcULdETaRdiyIS0=; b=sbmq9nOkm79YIB9+qrkjKO7lDPgC0PxXFWWSqDv/7wWMzqCpBiRNJ4zGrwSQkR7FNr LUU3hcbfMPbS/KcRVt0SBHeItL6FNk+YIJz4HnA7/D4uAogasEsqTjEyNf95OoFDpt6B 7oymP8YGp6j1R2wtgTg2GXmo+7cAhYtFI6EXk8mwoiktMqFg4iaJ+CIpmG/MsgHo6Xre rBA54IOsgn8GG3uHYuBUE9/OnbI52k8yIjX5yg72e41uH0GRLuv74MHYMy8kpq7WfBOD 5840ft2jupKQzQvDGt/Krq/p2N5d6DW3sAzMVAre+lMrKawZor5aKRaP4OQrfUlr+0z5 323w== X-Received: by 10.194.77.110 with SMTP id r14mr9252972wjw.2.1364053164780; Sat, 23 Mar 2013 08:39:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: References: <514CFEDA.4030903@gmail.com> <8b1e5da2-7f80-4f68-a4f1-b4d1f36dd198@y7g2000pbu.googlegroups.com> From: Fabio Zadrozny Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2013 12:39:03 -0300 Subject: Re: LiClipse To: Wanderer Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf0c2a257739d04d89960aa Cc: python list , rusi X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 386 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1364053166 news.xs4all.nl 6930 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:38531 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:41739 --047d7bf0c2a257739d04d89960aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Wanderer wrote: > On Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:11:10 AM UTC-4, Fabio Zadrozny wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:38 AM, rusi wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 23, 7:58 am, Fabio Zadrozny wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello there, > > > > > > > > > > As I've proposed it, let me try to explain it a bit better (if you have > > > > > doubts, I should probably rephrase the proposal). > > > > > > > > > > There are 2 main targets there: keeping PyDev properly supported (which > > > > > hopefully doesn't need more explanation) and creating LiClipse. > > > > > > > > > > The idea for LiClipse is definitely not making a fork, but having an > easier > > > > > way to add a basic editor inside Eclipse (while developing PyDev, I do > get > > > > > many requests for adding support for editors related to Python, such as > > > > > Django templates, Mako, Restructured text, Cython, etc), so, this will > > > > > provide me with a basis to do that (and with the basis in place, the > idea > > > > > is having the possibility of creating an editor without knowledge of > > > > > Eclipse and in a very fast way -- current technologies for that such as > > > > > DLTK or XText aim much higher and are not trivial. I really want to > have a > > > > > way to have a basic editor inside Eclipse just specifying the language > very > > > > > 'loosely' -- say, something that'd take you 15-30 minutes and almost no > > > > > special knowledge of Eclipse internals -- and which would need more > > > > > knowledge of Eclipse internals only for more advanced stuff). > > > > > > > > > > As for the dark theme, it's something that annoys me a lot (so, I was > > > > > hoping it was also something interesting for other people -- right now, > > > > > it's not possible to have a professional dark theme in Eclipse, there > are > > > > > many loose ends -- so, for those that would like to work with a dark > theme > > > > > -- as myself -- it may be very annoying -- although yes, it may not be > > > > > applicable if you're happy with the current non-dark UI). > > > > > > > > > > As for distributions, yes, I plan to do an Eclipse distribution with > > > > > LiClipse / PyDev bundled -- Easy Eclipse is definitely not a solution > as it > > > > > is NOT supported (it has an ancient version of PyDev which only serves > to > > > > > confuse users and Eclipse.org does not have a Python version with > PyDev). > > > > > I'd hardly call that a fork thought (and it should be possible to > install > > > > > it as a separate plugin anyways, so, you can use the Eclipse you got > from > > > > > anywhere and just use the update site to get those plugins). > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > Fabio > > > > > > > > I am interested in the new eclipse plugin capabilities. > > > > Where does liclipse stand with respect to this? > > > > > > > > The idea is providing a way to add a language just by saying things like > keywords, elements (such as function or class -- if your language has > that), indenting words and it'll provide you an editor that has all the > common functions you'd expect, such as syntax highlighting, outline, > indenting, template completion, etc. So, in LiClipse, you shouldn't need to > create a plugin at this level, just one configuration file (which you > should be able to fill in 15-30 minutes). > > > > > > > > > > After that, if you want more things (such as code analysis or a semantic > aware code completion), then you'd have to go the route of actually > creating an Eclipse plugin. > > > > > > > > ie Eclipse-4 claims to have made plugin development (for new custom > > > > languages) easier. > > > > What is the relation of liclipse to eclipse 3<->4 plugin architecture? > > > > > > > > Well, it may have become a bit easier (with dltk and xtext), but it's > still far from trivial (you still have to know at least java, how plugins > work, eclipse internals, creating a grammar, etc.). > > > > > > > > > > The editors structure for LiClipse should work in both Eclipse 3 or 4, > although the theming enhancements will require Eclipse 4 (as it'll need > some features only available there). > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Fabio > > Thanks for the response. Now I understand better what you're trying to do. > Eclipse can be something of a pain to get basic support to use new > languages. I never was able to get it to work with Vpascal. I would also > like the bundle, since I can't get the version in the lab to work like the > version on my desk. I've never been one for dark themes. My pet peeve is > the battle over negative numbers between PyDev and pep8.py. PyDev put the > space in and pep8.py gives me a warning. > I remember report like that, unfortunately, in the last months working at Appcelerator, it was very difficult to actually work on PyDev (as it wasn't a priority for them), but if the funding succeeds, I hope to fix those annoyances (formatting should definitely respect pep8). > Anyway, PyDev deserves my support and thank you for all your hard work. > -- > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list > --047d7bf0c2a257739d04d89960aa Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Wanderer <wander= er@dialup4less.com> wrote:
On Saturday, March 23, 2013 7:11:10 AM UTC-4= , Fabio Zadrozny wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:38 AM, rusi <rusto...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 23, 7:58=A0am, Fabio Zadrozny <fabi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hello there,
>
> >
>
> > As I've proposed it, let me try to explain it a bit better (i= f you have
>
> > doubts, I should probably rephrase the proposal).
>
> >
>
> > There are 2 main targets there: keeping PyDev properly supported = (which
>
> > hopefully doesn't need more explanation) and creating LiClips= e.
>
> >
>
> > The idea for LiClipse is definitely not making a fork, but having= an easier
>
> > way to add a basic editor inside Eclipse (while developing PyDev,= I do get
>
> > many requests for adding support for editors related to Python, s= uch as
>
> > Django templates, Mako, Restructured text, Cython, etc), so, this= will
>
> > provide me with a basis to do that (and with the basis in place, = the idea
>
> > is having the possibility of creating an editor without knowledge= of
>
> > Eclipse and in a very fast way -- current technologies for that s= uch as
>
> > DLTK or XText aim much higher and are not trivial. I really want = to have a
>
> > way to have a basic editor inside Eclipse just specifying the lan= guage very
>
> > 'loosely' -- say, something that'd take you 15-30 min= utes and almost no
>
> > special knowledge of Eclipse internals -- and which would need mo= re
>
> > knowledge of Eclipse internals only for more advanced stuff).
>
> >
>
> > As for the dark theme, it's something that annoys me a lot (s= o, I was
>
> > hoping it was also something interesting for other people -- righ= t now,
>
> > it's not possible to have a professional dark theme in Eclips= e, there are
>
> > many loose ends -- so, for those that would like to work with a d= ark theme
>
> > -- as myself -- it may be very annoying -- although yes, it may n= ot be
>
> > applicable if you're happy with the current non-dark UI).
>
> >
>
> > As for distributions, yes, I plan to do an Eclipse distribution w= ith
>
> > LiClipse / PyDev bundled -- Easy Eclipse is definitely not a solu= tion as it
>
> > is NOT supported (it has an ancient version of PyDev which only s= erves to
>
> > confuse users and Eclipse.org does not have a Python version with= PyDev).
>
> > I'd hardly call that a fork thought (and it should be possibl= e to install
>
> > it as a separate plugin anyways, so, you can use the Eclipse you = got from
>
> > anywhere and just use the update site to get those plugins).
>
> >
>
> > Cheers,
>
> >
>
> > Fabio
>
>
>
> I am interested in the new eclipse plugin capabilities.
>
> Where does liclipse stand with respect to this?
>
>
>
> The idea is providing a way to add a lan= guage just by saying things like keywords, elements (such as function or cl= ass -- if your language has that), indenting words and it'll provide yo= u an editor that has all the common functions you'd expect, such as syn= tax highlighting, outline, indenting, template completion, etc. So, in LiCl= ipse, you shouldn't need to create a plugin at this level, just one con= figuration file (which you should be able to fill in 15-30 minutes).
>
>
>
>
> After that, if you want more things (such as code analysis or a semant= ic aware code completion), then you'd have to go the route of actually = creating an Eclipse plugin.
> =A0
>
>
> ie Eclipse-4 claims to have made plugin develo= pment (for new custom
>
> languages) easier.
>
> What is the relation of liclipse to eclipse 3<->4 plugin archite= cture?
>
>
>
> Well, it may have become a bit easier (with dl= tk and xtext), but it's still far from trivial (you still have to know = at least java, how plugins work, eclipse internals, creating a grammar, etc= .).
>
>
>
>
> The editors structure for LiClipse should work in both Eclipse 3 or 4,= although the theming enhancements will require Eclipse 4 (as it'll nee= d some features only available there).
>
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Fabio

Thanks for the response. Now I understand better what you're tryi= ng to do. Eclipse can be something of a pain to get basic support to use ne= w languages. I never was able to get it to work with Vpascal. I would also = like the bundle, since I can't get the version in the lab to work like = the version on my desk. I've never been one for dark themes. My pet pee= ve is the battle over negative numbers between PyDev and pep8.py. PyDev put= the space in and pep8.py gives me a warning.

I remember report like that, unfortu= nately, in the last months working at Appcelerator, it was very difficult t= o actually work on PyDev (as it wasn't a priority for them), but if the= funding succeeds, I hope to fix those annoyances (formatting should defini= tely respect pep8).


Anyway, PyDev deserves my support and thank you for all your hard work.
--
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

--047d7bf0c2a257739d04d89960aa--