Path: csiph.com!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!newsfeed1.swip.net!uio.no!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!nzpost1.xs4all.net!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.001 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 1.00; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.05; 'compiler': 0.05; 'cpython': 0.05; 'guido': 0.05; 'dev': 0.07; 'responding': 0.07; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.09; 'python': 0.10; 'missed': 0.15; '"while': 0.16; 'committers': 0.16; 'conclusion:': 0.16; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'hat,': 0.16; 'idle.': 0.16; 'maintainer': 0.16; 'programmers,': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'stuff)': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.16; 'hacking': 0.18; 'hack': 0.18; '>>>': 0.20; 'library': 0.20; '2015': 0.20; 'cc:2**0': 0.20; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.20; 'not,': 0.22; 'sep': 0.22; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.24; 'module': 0.25; "i've": 0.25; 'developers': 0.26; 'checking': 0.27; 'fri,': 0.27; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.27; '[2]': 0.27; '(although': 0.29; 'pep': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'code': 0.30; 'programmers': 0.30; 'anyone': 0.32; 'core': 0.32; '[1]': 0.32; 'language.': 0.32; 'maybe': 0.33; 'url:python': 0.33; "d'aprano": 0.33; 'steven': 0.33; 'definition': 0.34; 'editor': 0.34; 'list': 0.34; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'so,': 0.35; 'done': 0.35; 'clear': 0.35; 'but': 0.36; 'there': 0.36; 'url:org': 0.36; '(and': 0.36; 'pm,': 0.36; 'subject:: ': 0.37; 'really': 0.37; 'sure': 0.39; 'does': 0.39; 'rather': 0.39; 'senior': 0.39; 'skip:u 10': 0.61; 'here.': 0.62; 'more': 0.63; 'goals': 0.67; 'experts': 0.70; '"just': 0.84; 'about,': 0.84; 'beauties': 0.84; 'chrisa': 0.84; 'complaint': 0.84; 'presumably': 0.84; 'to:none': 0.91 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:cc :content-type; bh=nIUFoZSsyDpnFb9YF3Lqq/sfpwQXuCQ9RAzT6c8dwlI=; b=g2ZOfIoimqzKsp+Q0CSAQ4j/PgqJeIObn38kudsn4wT/YVflFvcz3keyit/hUNZjMK Jg1R/E767VKCOwyPtTsVb0c84mAoJU39dpiMdctek90fAW4x7uRkin+H1h6LXGOuO0fM z/QN7yHpOOgnnDs010hYqRUhWp1F4tkuZx5kN4iyCz0KL9foapVaufsnNWJS5glvDtzF JVSFIKp2XZemZFes9X3/+93EzjuPbG9swRDFbB/SrDruNzoZT72aDLmsP0Qtfj+1qDbS +vqg4ztraJe9TqkgdYcSBfLmOh3Hw+P99QnaDdQ6jKM5k2CNtfNf42jR4FFj/imyVkUt BGIA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.114.100 with SMTP id jf4mr1989282igb.94.1441962966457; Fri, 11 Sep 2015 02:16:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55f293da$0$1640$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <55f293da$0$1640$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 19:16:06 +1000 Subject: Re: Python handles globals badly. From: Chris Angelico Cc: "python-list@python.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20+ Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1441962969 news.xs4all.nl 23787 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:54541 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:96335 On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 6:42 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >>> Who is responding or has responded? >>> Extreme Programmers, Python-Hardliner, Python-Evangelists, ... . >>> Presumably no core Python Programmers (wrting compiler and standard >>> library stuff) >> >> Ad hominem. > > For the record, I am the author of the statistics module in Python 3.4, and > Terry Reedy is the very active maintainer of IDLE. If I have missed anyone, > my apologies. So, yes, there are core developers here. > > (Although not any of the senior core devs, as far as I know.) I don't know what the definition of "senior core dev" would be. Checking the Experts List [1] shows you and Terry both, as does the list of committers [2] (and it has me as well, although that's because I wear a PEP Editor hat, so I don't count as even a non-senior core dev). Is there an "inner circle" of people Guido trusts more than "just ordinary core devs"? I rather suspect not, but maybe I'm wrong. Hacking on CPython without core dev status is actually pretty easy. I've done it. (Added a "while ... as name:" syntax, just to see how hard it would be. Conclusion: It's not hard at all.) If anything, that's a _lower_ bar to clear than "idiomatic Python programmer", because anyone can hack on C code without understanding the goals and beauties of the Python language. So I'm really not sure what the original complaint was about, nor how to answer it. ChrisA [1] https://docs.python.org/devguide/experts.html#experts [2] https://hg.python.org/committers.txt