Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!news.albasani.net!rt.uk.eu.org!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed2.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail
Return-Path: <ethan@stoneleaf.us>
X-Original-To: python-list@python.org
Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org
X-Spam-Status: OK 0.015
X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.97; '*S*': 0.00; 'subject:Python': 0.06; 'subject: -- ': 0.07; 'from:addr:ethan': 0.09; 'from:addr:stoneleaf.us': 0.09; 'from:name:ethan furman': 0.09; 'message-id:@stoneleaf.us': 0.09; '~ethan~': 0.09; 'thread': 0.14; '4:25': 0.16; 'beating': 0.16; 'behavior,': 0.16; 'received:69.93': 0.16; 'reedy': 0.16; 'regression': 0.16; 'subject: \n ': 0.16; 'subject:Jobs': 0.16; 'subject:Unicode': 0.16; 'subject:handling': 0.16; 'troll': 0.16; 'appropriate': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; 'discussion': 0.18; 'trying': 0.19; 'slightly': 0.19; 'seems': 0.21; 'header:User-Agent:1': 0.23; 'certainly': 0.24; 'fixed.': 0.24; 'stopping': 0.24; 'subject:Code': 0.24; 'unicode': 0.24; 'initial': 0.24; 'handling': 0.26; 'posts': 0.26; 'asking': 0.27; 'certain': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'rest': 0.29; '[1]': 0.29; "i'm": 0.30; 'that.': 0.31; 'continually': 0.31; 'go.': 0.31; 'minor': 0.31; 'reward': 0.31; 'agree': 0.35; 'no,': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'charset:us-ascii': 0.36; 'should': 0.36; 'list': 0.37; 'clear': 0.37; 'performance': 0.37; 'thank': 0.38; 'subject:]': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'changed': 0.39; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'continued': 0.60; 'efforts.': 0.60; 'most': 0.60; 'received:173': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; 'further': 0.61; 'such': 0.63; 'our': 0.64; 'afraid': 0.65; 'statement,': 0.68; 'respect': 0.70; 'wish': 0.70; 'us,': 0.73; 'discovered': 0.83; 'drop.': 0.84; 'ethan': 0.84; 'furman': 0.84; 'newcomer': 0.84; 'exhibiting': 0.91; 'refuse': 0.93
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2013 20:11:47 -0800
From: Ethan Furman <ethan@stoneleaf.us>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:16.0) Gecko/20121010 Thunderbird/16.0.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: python-list@python.org
Subject: Re: Code of Conduct, Trolls, and Thankless Jobs  [was Re: Python Unicode handling wins again -- mostly]
References: <529934dc$0$29993$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <mailman.3438.1385920822.18130.python-list@python.org> <ce8504d2-7e4e-4a2b-9cee-82bc6445492b@googlegroups.com> <mailman.3443.1385931297.18130.python-list@python.org> <23ee5279-bdfd-4fb0-b535-042f7c3bab23@googlegroups.com> <l7i6fg$ga8$1@ger.gmane.org> <l7i8jn$aq7$1@ger.gmane.org> <l7i9tn$sjh$1@ger.gmane.org> <l7iqcn$e9r$1@ger.gmane.org> <l7irgd$r96$1@ger.gmane.org> <529CFAE3.1070707@stoneleaf.us> <l7jip5$svh$1@ger.gmane.org>
In-Reply-To: <l7jip5$svh$1@ger.gmane.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator3304.hostgator.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - python.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - stoneleaf.us
X-BWhitelist: no
X-Source-IP: 173.12.184.233
X-Source: 
X-Source-Args: 
X-Source-Dir: 
X-Source-Sender: ([173.12.184.233]) [173.12.184.233]:37765
X-Source-Auth: ethan+stoneleaf.us
X-Email-Count: 1
X-Source-Cap: dG9idWs7dG9idWs7Z2F0b3IzMzA0Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20=
X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language <python-list.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/>
List-Post: <mailto:python-list@python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list>, <mailto:python-list-request@python.org?subject=subscribe>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
Message-ID: <mailman.3500.1386045379.18130.python-list@python.org>
Lines: 34
NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6
X-Trace: 1386045379 news.xs4all.nl 15865 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:58701
X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl
Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:60917

On 12/02/2013 07:22 PM, Terry Reedy wrote:
> On 12/2/2013 4:25 PM, Ethan Furman wrote:
>> jmf is certainly a troll
>
> No, he is a person who discovered a minor performance regression in the FSR, which we fixed. Unfortunately, he then
> continued for a year with a strange troll-like anti-FSR crusade. But his posts in the Unicode handling thread were not
> part of that. It seems to me that continually beating someone over the head with the past discourages changed behavior.
> To me, the point of asking someone to 'stop' is to persuade them to stop. The reward for stopping should be to let the
> issue go.

I remember it slightly differently, but you're right -- we should let it drop.


>> the coddling of trolls and help-vampires also makes the list an
>> unfriendly place to be.
>
> I agree with the that as a statement, but not the implication. Was I hallucinating, or did you not recently participate
> in the discussion and decision to stop coddling our most obnoxious 'troll' in the community?

I'm afraid I don't see the point you are trying to make.  I'm against coddling those who refuse to learn and participate 
with respect to the rest of us, and I did vote to stop such coddling [1] of a certain troll.  I don't see the discrepancy.

All that aside, thank you to you and the other moderators for your time and efforts.

--
~Ethan~

[1] Coddling can be an offensive word, and I wish to make clear that initial efforts to educate and help newcomers are 
appropriate and warranted.  However, after some time has passed and the newcomer is no longer a newcomer and is still 
exhibiting rude and ignorant behavior, further attempts to help most likely won't, and that is when I would classify 
such attempts as coddling.

--
~Ethan~