Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!gegeweb.org!de-l.enfer-du-nord.net!feeder1.enfer-du-nord.net!feeds.phibee-telecom.net!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed3.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.064 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.87; '*S*': 0.00; 'python.': 0.02; 'explicitly': 0.05; 'python': 0.11; "wouldn't": 0.14; 'posted': 0.15; 'from:addr:rosuav': 0.16; 'from:name:chris angelico': 0.16; 'guilty': 0.16; 'perfect.': 0.16; 'wrote:': 0.18; '>>>': 0.22; 'code,': 0.22; "aren't": 0.24; 'mon,': 0.24; 'asking': 0.27; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'function': 0.29; 'chris': 0.29; 'am,': 0.29; 'especially': 0.30; 'message-id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; "i'm": 0.30; 'actual': 0.34; 'trouble': 0.34; '"the': 0.34; 'subject:the': 0.34; 'problem.': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'behind': 0.37; 'too': 0.37; 'problems': 0.38; 'confirmed': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'files': 0.38; 'issue': 0.38; 'pm,': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'expect': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'major': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'read': 0.60; 'tell': 0.60; 'free,': 0.61; 'matter': 0.61; 'simply': 0.61; 'times': 0.62; 'provide': 0.64; 'world': 0.66; 'here': 0.66; 'feeling': 0.68; 'subject:Don': 0.91; '2013': 0.98 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=5bZB/4BPUMX8CWl53Om781GocACdXhnoXQyBLukCAWY=; b=pGoo7uVSlFP9bIo8QxE1TxCxaJmQnL2p0fzSQp/tHYHE43rJ4NG2W/ppwPvgqUeyfv c+YWK1wF+Jl91vc4mfGYM7CHhN8i62UiU8MzzIkejVgsn5Xpy7pwWrlmnd5l+fH/Mkhi uXKUjLnpFxT/WoRGSmgFDLYSyKlwJNtP4LvRmChbyY7w9dIgJbSdpuwV4/iNNpI0M33y LyVmzurK0cEgkMC5V+t/KoykU0ay/7eVawDiA7SAThtoY9cHhF96Y52cjF1lyu8w4c1V fn+SK4617Tz/HO5RdiiSzSXqqFMF5beQSRLKZTi2Kxr+VZDiTJp+R0P0+oF0iEBsUsqu J9Cw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.4.4 with SMTP id oa4mr2772508vcb.70.1371505383212; Mon, 17 Jun 2013 14:43:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <6ef1ab49-4596-4204-b0f6-10decd4f0d31@googlegroups.com> References: <7wfvwkcihf.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <20130615020957.GA72426@cskk.homeip.net> <7w61xfa9y8.fsf@benfinney.id.au> <51bc8af2$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <6dc5124d-3b00-4d53-a555-b7f31765abd7@ow4g2000pbc.googlegroups.com> <51bca9eb$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <35734e52-2396-4ec2-938f-d5b0f592adf5@4g2000pbf.googlegroups.com> <51bcc094$0$29997$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <51be1a42$0$29966$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <96ed14e3-79dd-40c2-8063-aa58a42c7b57@googlegroups.com> <6ef1ab49-4596-4204-b0f6-10decd4f0d31@googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 07:43:02 +1000 Subject: Re: Don't feed the troll... From: Chris Angelico To: python-list@python.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1371505385 news.xs4all.nl 15886 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:48036 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:48566 On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 12:41 AM, wrote: > On 06/17/2013 01:23 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: >> On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 3:04 PM, Ferrous Cranus wrote: >>> The only thing i'm feeling guilty is that instead of reading help files and >>> PEP's which seem too technical for me, i prefer the live help of an actual >>> expert human being. >> >> This is definitely a reason to feel guilty. You are asking people to >> provide live help for free, rather than simply reading the >> documentation. > > It is NOT a matter of simply reading the documentation. > I have posted here several times as have many others about > some of the problems the documentation has, especially for > people who don't already know Python. I'm aware the docs aren't perfect. But there's a world of difference between: "Here's my code, tell me what's wrong. TELL ME NOW!!" and "Having trouble understanding this function [link to docs] - I expect X but Y happens". That's what I take issue with. The implication behind Nikos's questions is that he *can't be bothered* reading the docs, which he has explicitly confirmed above. That's nothing to do with "the problems the documentation has"; if Python had perfect documentation, he still wouldn't read it. That is a problem. A major problem. ChrisA