Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder1.news.weretis.net!feeder.erje.net!eu.feeder.erje.net!xlned.com!feeder3.xlned.com!newsfeed.xs4all.nl!newsfeed1.news.xs4all.nl!xs4all!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.086 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.83; '*S*': 0.00; 'argument': 0.05; 'configure': 0.05; 'context': 0.07; 'mess': 0.09; 'thread': 0.14; 'adjacent': 0.16; 'formatting,': 0.16; 'from:addr:torriem': 0.16; 'from:name:michael torrie': 0.16; 'usenet': 0.16; 'header:User- Agent:1': 0.23; 'certainly': 0.24; 'text.': 0.24; 'fairly': 0.24; "haven't": 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; 'point': 0.28; 'related': 0.29; 'spam,': 0.31; 'ago': 0.33; 'guess': 0.33; 'plain': 0.33; 'problem': 0.35; 'problem.': 0.35; 'etc': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'add': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'should': 0.36; 'two': 0.37; 'list': 0.37; 'list.': 0.37; 'message-id:@gmail.com': 0.38; 'problems': 0.38; 'to:addr:python-list': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'itself': 0.39; 'moving': 0.39; 'sure': 0.39; 'to:addr:python.org': 0.39; 'changed': 0.39; 'received:org': 0.40; 'skip:u 10': 0.60; 'easy': 0.60; 'sender.': 0.60; 'solve': 0.60; 'show': 0.63; 'due': 0.66; 'reply': 0.66; 'debate': 0.68; 'subject': 0.69; 'default': 0.69; 'e-mail,': 0.69; 'genuine': 0.78; 'nuts,': 0.84; 'subject:Managing': 0.84 X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at torriefamily.org Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 12:55:27 -0700 From: Michael Torrie User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:10.0.12) Gecko/20130105 Thunderbird/10.0.12 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: python-list@python.org Subject: Re: Managing Google Groups headaches References: <5f370a06-8d2c-4d7d-bc22-b9a489c15c59@googlegroups.com> <834d2e9d-2fb2-4401-82fe-dbe161d6d362@googlegroups.com> <529763FF.2030305@gmail.com> <15E5E7AA-FBFF-456F-B62A-2FC55DA0380A@gmail.com> <70757ad7-5055-45c7-97d6-6d14f2c4d901@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1385668554 news.xs4all.nl 15912 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:42579 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:60729 My point was that the list problems in general seem to be related to usenet. GG formatting, spam, trolls. I guess I should have changed the subject line. Ditching usenet solves the GG problem and a number of other problems as well. >> IOW we are unfortunately conflating two completely unrelated things: >> 1. GG has some technical problems which are fairly easy to solve >> 2. All kinds of people hop onto the list. In addition to genuine ones there are >> spammers, trolls, dicks, nuts, philosophers, help-vampires etc etc. > > To add to that: > 1. In this thread itself there is a quadruple-post Again, sure this was not due to GG, but it was due to a usenet client. So again, while usenet isn't the problem per se here, moving away from usenet would have prevented that particular problem. > 2. In an adjacent thread there is the mess due to html mail Guess I never see this since I use thunderbird and I can configure it to always show plain text. > 3. Sometime ago there was a long argument around the old and unsettled: > Reply vs Reply-all debate I think the debate was not that but rather should the list messages default to reply to list or reply to sender. And I haven't seen that argument in many years now. Certainly not in the context of usenet vs e-mail, which I was addressing.