Path: csiph.com!usenet.pasdenom.info!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!newsreader4.netcologne.de!news.netcologne.de!xlned.com!feeder5.xlned.com!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!newsgate.news.xs4all.nl!post.news.xs4all.nl!not-for-mail Return-Path: X-Original-To: python-list@python.org Delivered-To: python-list@mail.python.org X-Spam-Status: OK 0.058 X-Spam-Evidence: '*H*': 0.89; '*S*': 0.00; 'argument': 0.05; 'lines,': 0.07; 'puts': 0.07; 'string': 0.09; 'expectation': 0.09; 'subject:skip:c 10': 0.09; 'cc:addr:python-list': 0.11; '*do': 0.16; 'argument.': 0.16; 'attached,': 0.16; 'big,': 0.16; 'charging': 0.16; 'comparison.': 0.16; 'disconnected': 0.16; 'figure,': 0.16; 'grounds': 0.16; 'negligence': 0.16; 'tax.': 0.16; 'to:addr:pearwood.info': 0.16; 'to:addr:steve+comp.lang.python': 0.16; "to:name:steven d'aprano": 0.16; 'you*.': 0.16; 'subject:python': 0.16; 'saying': 0.22; 'cc:addr:python.org': 0.22; 'cc:2**0': 0.24; 'cc:no real name:2**0': 0.24; 'header:In-Reply-To:1': 0.27; "doesn't": 0.30; 'errors': 0.30; 'joe': 0.30; 'see,': 0.30; 'message- id:@mail.gmail.com': 0.30; 'gives': 0.31; 'getting': 0.31; 'lines': 0.31; 'posting': 0.31; 'argue': 0.31; 'piece': 0.31; 'publicly': 0.31; 'stands': 0.31; 'critical': 0.32; 'says': 0.33; 'could': 0.34; "can't": 0.35; 'something': 0.35; 'but': 0.35; 'received:google.com': 0.35; 'there': 0.35; 'so,': 0.37; 'two': 0.37; 'issue': 0.38; 'rather': 0.38; 'anything': 0.39; 'company': 0.60; 'is.': 0.60; 'free,': 0.61; 'course': 0.61; "you're": 0.61; 'first': 0.61; 'making': 0.63; 'show': 0.63; 'such': 0.63; 'taking': 0.65; 'income': 0.65; 'town': 0.65; 'it!': 0.67; 'promise': 0.68; 'legal': 0.71; 'online': 0.71; 'money': 0.72; 'car': 0.72; 'all!': 0.84; 'blow': 0.84; 'claim.': 0.84; 'difference.': 0.84; 'lawyer': 0.84; 'production,': 0.84; 'standing': 0.84; 'subject:tool': 0.84; 'sue': 0.84; 'criminal': 0.95 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=AuYDSFI6X/PcDy//tsazP2mS52mQA5Du+7mph8i+RGU=; b=POFUdg66ltpXeD27T5yXrAAs2MrJpSckUgWFN3ws7AFaLsx7njDE2Gh+e1qoFEQmcu 3vcfAMO70x4A96BOsnJxfDGSn74z9u4wlFy6v7bH4k1bHc/7B/Ma7u1pokVO/gJLxjql iHmtwqhnxthBTZPZv2exMGB/LG6BVJF7tYExHi18UUDOienJaN9NC7fQm+mOHg3EQEZG GQGv1MnR4qYCwZAlGhf0usQTfU+h3IP6+wOx9qgKZ/g52JRsUz/xE1/RCIiQlYhq99ZK ZfmNaXXv8/ngVVnvlSHzvvk+/4VTN68q1IFggl017MT/mxC/gMx/xm93bIwvnDcH/ZkO JyBw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.39.207 with SMTP id r15mr17876339wik.16.1365494534629; Tue, 09 Apr 2013 01:02:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <5163c578$0$29977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> References: <48f984a0-7702-4cba-9021-06c3985646da@googlegroups.com> <5161f508$0$29995$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> <51637779.7020209@davea.name> <5163c578$0$29977$c3e8da3$5496439d@news.astraweb.com> Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2013 01:02:14 -0700 Subject: Re: im.py: a python communications tool From: Mark Janssen To: "Steven D'Aprano" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: python-list@python.org X-BeenThere: python-list@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: General discussion list for the Python programming language List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Message-ID: Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Host: 2001:888:2000:d::a6 X-Trace: 1365494541 news.xs4all.nl 6903 [2001:888:2000:d::a6]:47885 X-Complaints-To: abuse@xs4all.nl Xref: csiph.com comp.lang.python:43135 >> It doesn't have to say so, if it's not charging any money -- there's no >> expectation that you're getting anything at all! > > Of course there is. If Oprah Winfrey stands up and publicly says that > she's giving you a car, FOR FREE, no strings attached, and then gives you > a piece of old bubblegum, you have standing to sue for breach of promise. > If she gives you the car, but puts it down as a *prize* rather than a > gift, then there is a big, hefty string attached: income tax. But you see, there's the critical difference. First of all you're making two errors in your comparison. Firstly, a *person* is saying that she's going to *do something for you*. She's making a promise. If I put a piece of software online -- you're taking it! That's #1 (!) Number 2, you used Oprah, a public figure, to make you're argument. Legally, the issue is not so much that she's a public figure, but that she's making a *published* claim. It could be Joe Blow posting a notice around town making the claim. Now such claims don't have much legal standing, because a lawyer could argue that Joe Blow is a nut job and such offers can't be trusted. If you want grounds for breach of a promise you better get it in writing and counter-signed. > And if she gives you a car, only the brake lines have been disconnected > and you're seriously injured the first time you drive it, you also have > standing to sue that she gave you a car that was unfit for the purpose it > was designed. Okay, if the TV show disconnected the brake lines, there could be argument of criminal negligence on her production, but otherwise the car company could be sued. You don't sue Oprah because she's not the one who designed it. Mark